Thoughts on 53g vmax.

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
Ive killed coyotes with all three and a dozen others. I killed a bunch of them in 300blk with factory loaded 110gr ttsx.

Ive killed with all sorts of game kings, match kings, hammers, ballistic tips, partitions, eld-m, eld-x, V-max, fgmm, norma golden, hornady bthp, and probably a dozen others. You don't have the research market covered with your 8 v-max coyotes, so relax.
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Lets see some Nosler partition reviews! Those are the ones I want to try, I always mix them up with with the BTs. Those are how a bullet should be made, what does hornady have that compares to a Nosler Partition in .224? Nothing thats been popular recently.

Ive gotten plenty coyotes to see whats going on, especially with two buddies and two seasons of varmint bullet mess. Ive got them with the 52 bergers, hornady 50 and 55 SP, 69smk and Ive got a 180gr Mosin coyote pelt hanging next to me now also but those are one or two off, ive seen multiples of 52 varmint, 53 vmax, SGK, TSX are newer to me. Soft weak bullets shouldnt be the future, give Nosler Partitions some light and the TSX, those are some cutting edge fantastic design and construction. Hornady are thin plain jackets on a soft plain core, no bonding, with a colorful tip, 2 dozen variations of that now...

Everyone wants DRT and park a bullet inside a coyote at 600 yards like the pros in the movies, I want to see some real world data.
 
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Rock Knocker said:
Lets see some Nosler partition reviews! Those are the ones I want to try, I always mix them up with with the BTs. Those are how a bullet should be made, what does hornady have that compares to a Nosler Partition in .224? Nothing thats been popular recently.

Ive gotten plenty coyotes to see whats going on, especially with two buddies and two seasons of varmint bullet mess. Ive got them with the 52 bergers, hornady 50 and 55 SP, 69smk and Ive got a 180gr Mosin coyote pelt hanging next to me now also but those are one or two off, ive seen multiples of 52 varmint, 53 vmax, SGK, TSX are newer to me. Soft weak bullets shouldnt be the future, give Nosler Partitions some light and the TSX, those are some cutting edge fantastic design and construction. Hornady are thin plain jackets on a soft plain core, no bonding, with a colorful tip, 2 dozen variations of that now...

Everyone wants DRT and park a bullet inside a coyote at 600 yards like the pros in the movies, I want to see some real world data.
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I just zeroed my 18" 6cm ar night right with 90gr ballistic tips. Talk about pretty tips, these are purple. I'm always trying something new. I didn't even think to include all of the bergers I've tried in the mix above. I had some 50gr flat based berger varmint bullets that I thought sucked in a 22-250. Grouped really well, easy to find a good load, but penciled through coyotes. I've had more consistent success on coyotes with v-max than anything. I shot some speer 90gr tnt bullets for a while. They start dropping fast beyond 200y, but if you want drt, it does it.
 
Rock, you and your two buddies can shoot whatever you want. Nobody is saying you can’t. The reality is that you’re butting heads with a pile of legitimate coyote killers that are telling you otherwise. Myself included! It sounds like you’re experience hasn’t been good. You found something that works. Run with it. But come on man! Stop trying to convince the folks that pile up coyotes with v-max bullets, that your opinion means anything! Shoot what makes you happy!

I appreciate your dogged determination, but damn dude, the end result from actual killers is crushing your argument!
 
Ive been around here awhile, this is the same conversation I had here when I was late to the cordless FoxPros, everyone around here said how great they were and they were better than sliced bread, finally a locally shop had one of their midrange models on clearance so I bought it. I was not happy at all as soon as I got it, the cordless remote range was horrible, their early cordless remotes were some sort or supercheap China special, 30 yards and those remotes were having problems, less in grass. Those $250 FoxPros everyone loved and on TV were crushing coyotes had remotes with less range than Wallmart RC cars, people moaned, and said I didnt know what I was talking about, I told them FoxPro was scamming them. I returned that FoxPro and said the remote was defective when it was acting the same as the happy masses. Turns out the next model came out that month for the same price and the updated remote that works at like 250 or 300 yards, they did cheap out big time all along, no one on TV mentioned that.

This smells like marketing over true development. Ask them for a hardcore coyote Vmax, then see if im wrong. The pros out in the open praries and deserts doesnt mean much to me.
 
Rock Knocker said:
Ive been around here awhile, this is the same conversation I had here when I was late to the cordless FoxPros, everyone around here said how great they were and they were better than sliced bread, finally a locally shop had one of their midrange models on clearance so I bought it. I was not happy at all as soon as I got it, the cordless remote range was horrible, their early cordless remotes were some sort or supercheap China special, 30 yards and those remotes were having problems, less in grass. Those $250 FoxPros everyone loved and on TV were crushing coyotes had remotes with less range than Wallmart RC cars, people moaned, and said I didnt know what I was talking about, I told them FoxPro was scamming them. I returned that FoxPro and said the remote was defective when it was acting the same as the happy masses. Turns out the next model came out that month for the same price and the updated remote that works at like 250 or 300 yards, they did cheap out big time all along, no one on TV mentioned that.

This smells like marketing over true development. Ask them for a hardcore coyote Vmax, then see if im wrong. The pros out in the open praries and deserts doesnt mean much to me.
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Sounds like you are bound and determined to be upset about something no matter what!
I hate to tell you this but everything is about marketing! Everything is hyped up and everything is made to look better than it really is. It's just the nature of things. Are VMAX hyped up yep. Are they also pretty dang good yes. Its up to you as the consumer to learn what really performs for you.
 
Yotarunner said:
Sounds like you are bound and determined to be upset about something no matter what!
I hate to tell you this but everything is about marketing! Everything is hyped up and everything is made to look better than it really is. It's just the nature of things. Are VMAX hyped up yep. Are they also pretty dang good yes. Its up to you as the consumer to learn what really performs for you.
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Not everything is hyped up and over marketed. The SGK for example, better in every way, its never talked about, no ammo even available. SGK are even so frangible that they fail FBI gel tests for penetration but people here think theyre developed for grizzly hunting. SGK are a Vmax that bones wont stop, no on knows this, do you think the average shooter that knows nothing and just buys whats on the shelf would rather have a SGK in their gun or Vmax, the sponsored pros all use Vmax so they must be the best right?

An engineering student explained to me that a varmint bullet was the most dangerous and destructive because all energy is lost in the target immediately, i showed him a video of a coyote running away. ..... people dont know what they are talking about, especially the ones who only follow the pros online. If the "crushing reliable performance" of a SGK was the new hot thing and the pro used it people would flock to it, there wouldnt be run offs and splash damage coyote vids online and cougar attacks wouldnt need high cap mags to stop.

Others are using vmax for home defense because they think walls will stop it, thats not the case at all, its gotten out of control a$$ backwards, horrible for stopping big animals but can go through 6 walls.
 
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BleedsBlue said:
Agreed, most excitement I've seen on this forum in quite some time. I'd hate to mention my favorite motor oil , brand of pickup truck or what color my tractors are.... it would be Ferguson all over again. Lol
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Let me make some guesses based on context clues:
You're a quaker state guy, drive a GM truck, and your tractors are green. I'll bet I'm close.
 
I spent the last couple days looking at bullet designs, mostly .224, lots of brands. And listening to Hornady podcast.

We all know Vmax were designed for Pdogs and that markets has died back big time, Hornady knows coyotes are the new thing but I think they dont have the equipment to really toughen up and make a good 50-55gr coyote bullet. The ELD X line i see has a little "interlock ring" in the jacket to help hold the core for hunting, I dont know why they havent made a 53gr ELD X and push it as the best magazine length coyote bullet ever developed, just an interlock ring in the 53 Vmax.... BUT, kind of a big butt, as far as I can see in their jacketed lead hunting line, even big game bullets, they have no bonding process. All their hunting bullets are a plain, rather thin jacket made tougher with a connelure and/or interlock ring.

So back to the 53 Vmax w/ interlock (my hypothetical 53gr ELD X) .... I dont think an interlock ring alone in a 53 vmax is going to do nearly a dang thing to help hold it together.... maybe im wrong.

I think bonding alone would put their bullets into the top shelf category. Maybe bonding isnt necessary, they have a 50gr SP and 50gr SP SX, everything about the two looks the same so why is the SX super expanding with those, softer core? Maybe try a harder lead Vmax? But I know from the Hornadys Ive hunted with, they arent top shelf performance on game, it seems like they all expand too quick at the tip and leave just a slug to punch through instead of a nice mushroom. Hornady is at the the correct price and lots of availability but at this point they are just trying to make bullets look better by math on paper than in the real world.

I think we would all love a bonded Vmax..... Or at least see an attempt to make a coyote 50-55gr, maybe take the 53Vmax, give it a SP lead tip intsead of plastic, powdercoat the tip red and sell as "New Ceramic Tipped Vmax!" Good heavens, with Horanadys marketing, just think, "The Legendary Vmax Now Stops More!"
 
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Rock Knocker said:
I spent the last couple days looking at bullet designs, mostly .224, lots of brands. And listening to Hornady podcast.

We all know Vmax were designed for Pdogs and that markets has died back big time, Hornady knows coyotes are the new thing but I think they dont have the equipment to really toughen up and make a good 50-55gr coyote bullet. The ELD X line i see has a little "interlock ring" in the jacket to help hold the core for hunting, I dont know why they havent made a 53gr ELD X and push it as the best magazine length coyote bullet ever developed, just an interlock ring in the 53 Vmax.... BUT, kind of a big butt, as far as I can see in their jacketed lead hunting line, even big game bullets, they have no bonding process. All their hunting bullets are a plain, rather thin jacket made tougher with a connelure and/or interlock ring.

So back to the 53 Vmax w/ interlock (my hypothetical 53gr ELD X) .... I dont think an interlock ring alone in a 53 vmax is going to do nearly a dang thing to help hold it together.... maybe im wrong.

I think bonding alone would put their bullets into the top shelf category. Maybe bonding isnt necessary, they have a 50gr SP and 50gr SP SX, everything about the two looks the same so why is the SX super expanding with those, softer core? Maybe try a harder lead Vmax? But I know from the Hornadys Ive hunted with, they arent top shelf performance on game, it seems like they all expand too quick at the tip and leave just a slug to punch through instead of a nice mushroom. Hornady is at the the correct price and lots of availability but at this point they are just trying to make bullets look better by math on paper than in the real world.

I think we would all love a bonded Vmax..... Or at least see an attempt to make a coyote 50-55gr, maybe take the 53Vmax, give it a SP lead tip intsead of plastic, powdercoat the tip red and sell as "New Ceramic Tipped Vmax!" Good heavens, with Horanadys marketing, just think, "The Legendary Vmax Now Stops More!"
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So for whatever reason you don't want to let this go and since I'm apparently too stupid to let it go il play along.
Let's back up a step.
I think to truly have a discussion about this we need to start with what you or I expect and want in a coyote bullet.
I have a friend whom shares very different views on bullets than I do and I feel like you and he would get along well lol.
For discussion we will assume a perfect broadside coyote.
I'm going to out on a limb and assume that your opinion is that a bullet should have a controlled expansion with large initial cavitation then driving through leading to a small hole in and small hole out.
The train of thought that I and many other VMAX shooters follow is one small hole in and no hole out. Bullet expends 100 percent of its energy inside the coyote.

The friend of mine likes the big game version of the sgk as well as tsx and sbt. He runs high speeds and likes small holes on both sides. His coyotes run a few feet now and then but always go down.
Me personally I run a little bit slower and like the explosive one hole
 
I dont care what happens broadside with a perfect shot presentation, a 17HMR will work, and I dont care what the hole in the animal looks like as long as its not a splash crater. I dont care about an exit hole, thats what bullets are made to do. On the other hand frequent runners, tear damage and questionable stuff is not acceptable at all. Im talking about 223 after all so im no talking a total blowout exit so, exit hole, ok, that makes sence. Explosive splash right where i aim, wounded dog getting away, that doesnt make sence.

The bullet just has to go through a quartered coyote shoulder. Hornady knows this, on their podcast they talk about themselves stepping up to larger calibers night hunting because you dont get the same shots, you cant exactly judge the angle, the shoulder is just part of the blob coyote silhouette, you get more runners at night(I dont anymore).

Everyone talks about the sound of when Vmax and varmint bullets hit sounded like hitting them with a baseball bat, I agree, ive used the same analogy. When you hit them with a SGK it sounds like an M80 huge firecracker went off inside them. The whole stopping the bullet right inside the coyote is the whole handicap craze, thats not what guns are made to do, its a fad, a fashion, pelts arent worth anything anymore. Start shooting SGK and only take quartering to you shots and head on shots, you wont get an exit, you will still have the opportunity to shoot broadside and get an exit but you will get more shot oportunities than Vmax.

I wonder if there was any way they could thicken the jacket only at the nose of the Vmax, leave the rest just as soft, try to delay that explosiveness just a fraction.
 
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53gr is my favorite in the 50gr range. Beats the 55s and I actually liked them better than the 50s. Out of the 22-243, 220 swift and the 22-250 AI I really liked them. You’re going to blow a hole in them eventually with about anything you shoot. Those 53s especially with real speed behind them always thumped coyotes good for me.
 
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