Thoughts on 53g vmax.

Austin Laughlin said:
Maybe I’m wrong here, but that 17 WSM compared to that 22-250 is a classic example of the velocity. You shoot a 52gr A-Max or a BTHP Match out of a 223 AI into jell, then do it with a 22-243 and the expansion difference is not in the same conversation, but neither was the penetration.
Click to expand...
It sure surprised me when that tiny bullet passed completely through the coyote. A lot of it could have been shot placement too. I shot it through the ribs essentially and she was mangy so I didn't skin that coyote to see exactly what the damage looked like. For all I know I could have slipped that bullet between ribs on both sides and only hit lungs and soft fleshy things that make a coyote live. I wish I could say exactly what happened but that coyote ended up not getting skinned out.

Velocity definitely does come into play when it comes to the performance of all sorts of bullets. So that part of it I don't doubt. That's why so many people can shoot one bullet and have somewhat different opinions on it. What works great out of a 24" barrel may not do as well in a 16 1/2" or whatever the case may be. This website is definitely useful to help shorten the learning curve. But I think the best way to learn is from firsthand experience. That's why I say take my advice for what it's worth. I'm not going to discourage anyone from learning and unfortunately the best learning experiences in life come through trial and error. In my opinion we all need to walk that path.

The best advice I can give guys is buy ammo and shoot coyotes with it. Learn what works best for you and run with it regardless of what's on the box. Heck, there are hollowpoint bullets that are geared towards shooting targets but can, will and have killed coyotes and do a dang good job of it. Those boat tailed match hollowpoints will kill coyotes dead as a hammer. But nothing on the box they come in says so. Sometimes you just gotta buy things and try it.
 
OKRattler said:
It sure surprised me when that tiny bullet passed completely through the coyote. A lot of it could have been shot placement too. I shot it through the ribs essentially and she was mangy so I didn't skin that coyote to see exactly what the damage looked like. For all I know I could have slipped that bullet between ribs on both sides and only hit lungs and soft fleshy things that make a coyote live. I wish I could say exactly what happened but that coyote ended up not getting skinned out.

Velocity definitely does come into play when it comes to the performance of all sorts of bullets. So that part of it I don't doubt. That's why so many people can shoot one bullet and have somewhat different opinions on it. What works great out of a 24" barrel may not do as well in a 16 1/2" or whatever the case may be. This website is definitely useful to help shorten the learning curve. But I think the best way to learn is from firsthand experience. That's why I say take my advice for what it's worth. I'm not going to discourage anyone from learning and unfortunately the best learning experiences in life come through trial and error. In my opinion we all need to walk that path.

The best advice I can give guys is buy ammo and shoot coyotes with it. Learn what works best for you and run with it regardless of what's on the box. Heck, there are hollowpoint bullets that are geared towards shooting targets but can, will and have killed coyotes and do a dang good job of it. Those boat tailed match hollowpoints will kill coyotes dead as a hammer. But nothing on the box they come in says so. Sometimes you just gotta buy things and try it.
Click to expand...
Bingo. Agreed for sure. That A-Max and BTHPM both I have no exit, tiny entrance. Unless I don’t do my part. You’re going to blow a hole in a few regardless of bullet selection, it’s part of the game
 
Cal Taylor said:
I came and read through this thread after Skinney mentioned it last night on a IG live. Lots of information here, and I'm the first to admit I'm not a 22 caliber guy for the most part, but I have shot them plenty over the years. I stick to the 6 and 6.5 cartridges pretty hard. What I have learned is that every barrel length, velocity, and twist rate is going to cause any specific bullet to react differently. So no one can say that XYZ bullet is absolutely the worst on coyotes. A V-Max of any weight for example is going to be completely different for the guys shooting it out of a 22 Creed at 4000 fps than it is for the guy shooting it out of a short barrel AR at 3000 or less. It is going to be different out of a 7.5 twist than it is a 12 twist. So what I'm getting at is no one is wrong. What kills like lightning for one guy with a particular set up may not work as well for a different person with a completely different set up. One guy may shoot the majority of his coyotes at 50 yards and someone else may average 250 yards. Too many variables. Just figure out what works best for your setup and typical situation and go with it.
Click to expand...
This is still the best explanation I have seen posted by Cal Taylor on April 8, 2023. What I gather is that we can say it works for our particular setup and style of hunting, but may not work for yours.
 
The first year I started using an Ar15 on called coyotes I used hornady superformance with 53 grain vmax. I don't recall actually losing a coyote with them but they did show a clear lack of getting the job done even at 223 speeds. This was shown by splashes and finishing shots needed. too many people say oh you're crazy I killed coyote with them and they worked great. Then you find the truth is they shot like 2 coyotes and both died. I really want to see about 25 kills before I render a final verdict on a bullet cartridge combination.

vmaxes are built with the thinnest jackets of the main line bullets I know of. Noslers btips have a chunk of copper in the back, they are generally great bullets if you get them to shoot for coyote. Sierra at least in 22 caliber has the thickest jackets of the bunch.

the 53's do offer a BC/performance advantage. once you get beyond about 100 yards they are going to hold speed longer than 50's and thus will be flatter and hit harder on varmints.
 
Vmaxs work but there are better bullets. I like the Hornady SPs better than Vmax. Nosler BTs are better than either. They penetrate better and explode like a vmax. You get both. I think Nosler Varmageddons are about the same as a Vmax, really soft and explosive. Sometimes they don't penetrate quite enough before they blow up.
The first coyote I ever shot was with a .270 while deer hunting. I used a 130 gr Core-lokt. It went in one shoulder destroying it and out the other blowing the leg almost completely off. It was hanging. He still managed to make it about 100 yards before piling up in a tree line. I couldn't believe it. I was lucky to find him. I live around some thick stuff.
Due to living around somewhat thick woods and over growth I've moved on to shooting them with my 6x6.8 with 70gr BTs.
I tried some 69 gr TMKs. I shot 3 with them. 2 were massive wounds and 1 was just a little tiny hole. Not enough to get a good idea but I'm going to stick with my 6x6.8. .243/6mm bullets just kill better.
 
If you are shooting coyote for fur, you need 1"-4" of penetration and sufficient hydrostatic shock. If the coyote runs a short distance without tearing(skin) that is acceptable. The 1" is as important(this will greatly reduce surface disruption and sewing) as the max of 4". Very difficult to obtain this terminal performance at all distances(because of bullet velocity). Even bore diameter and twist rates will effect penetration as will bullet jacket construction. If fur value is not a consideration than 2-6" plus penetration terminal performance and wide wound channel will reduce runoffs(a consideration for bounty/tournament hunts). If you have shot many coyote(with multiple rifles/bullets) you will have seen these terminal performance differences. Ideally you want 100% reliable performance, that isn't practical in reality. What percentage of deviation is acceptable is up to the hunter and what drives changing(bullets,cartridge, shooting distance) or not.
 
This is interesting. Years ago I had a 222 Rem rifle and used Hornady 50gr SX in it. Hirnady cautioned against velocities over 3500fps. They claimed that at 3500fps the bullet would come apart in the air. Buddy had a 22-250 and we tried it and Hornady wasn't kidding. Today I don't have any 22 cal rifles other than rim fire. But I load my 243 with 75gr V-Max bullets and at 200yds they go all to pieces penetrating 1 1/2" Styrofoam, jacket material all over the ground behind the target. Surprised the 50gr V-Max doesn't dome apart at the velocities your shooting. Met a guy using a 223 with 50gr SX's here on coyotes years ago. I asked him about the bullets. Well under 3500fps and the bullets never exited. He said when you picked up a dead one it was like picking up a bag ow water. Insides were just destroyed!
 
Back
Top