Thoughts on 53g vmax.

Here is some real world data. I know there is always going to be the fellas saying, shoot more runners, anyone can make a standing broadside shot. My goal is to get them where I want them, how I want them, I want it to be an easy shot, that's how I know I've fooled natures most astute predator.
If it's marketing, wouldn't it be smart for fellas who make this gear, try and get it into our hands, who make sets like us, who try and get the animal to present itself like us, fellas who shoot all year round, reloading, practicing, building sub 1/2 MOA rifles, passing legislation to advance our agenda, fellas who do this for a living, guys who implement precision into every angle of work that they do?
I don't care what you use, I don't care how you use it. I try to be as respectful as I can to my quarry, and to my fellow hunters. Have fun, be safe, and God Bless.

 
Rock Knocker said:
I dont care what happens broadside with a perfect shot presentation, a 17HMR will work, and I dont care what the hole in the animal looks like as long as its not a splash crater. I dont care about an exit hole, thats what bullets are made to do. On the other hand frequent runners, tear damage and questionable stuff is not acceptable at all. Im talking about 223 after all so im no talking a total blowout exit so, exit hole, ok, that makes sence. Explosive splash right where i aim, wounded dog getting away, that doesnt make sence.

The bullet just has to go through a quartered coyote shoulder. Hornady knows this, on their podcast they talk about themselves stepping up to larger calibers night hunting because you dont get the same shots, you cant exactly judge the angle, the shoulder is just part of the blob coyote silhouette, you get more runners at night(I dont anymore).

Everyone talks about the sound of when Vmax and varmint bullets hit sounded like hitting them with a baseball bat, I agree, ive used the same analogy. When you hit them with a SGK it sounds like an M80 huge firecracker went off inside them. The whole stopping the bullet right inside the coyote is the whole handicap craze, thats not what guns are made to do, its a fad, a fashion, pelts arent worth anything anymore. Start shooting SGK and only take quartering to you shots and head on shots, you wont get an exit, you will still have the opportunity to shoot broadside and get an exit but you will get more shot oportunities than Vmax.

I wonder if there was any way they could thicken the jacket only at the nose of the Vmax, leave the rest just as soft, try to delay that explosiveness just a fraction.
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Are you(related) to Mr. Tim Anderson? You act like him.
Anyway, ive shot hundreds of coyotes/fox with both 22cal 50gr and 6mm 58/65gr and have yet to have an issue running them. If I make a poor shot/placement/etc, it's the indian not the arrow.
 
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I'm not sure who Mr. Tim Anderson is, he sounds like a cool guy though.

Hornady themselves say that Vmax should not be used on coyotes, they designed them for gophers.

Hornady themselves say they switch to larger calibers at night because of run offs.

Hornady knows the Pdog market has died and coyotes taken its place, the only thing Hornady has done for coyote hunters is the ELD VT which is just a longer gopher bullet and cant be loaded at magazine length in 223.

Coyote hunters have a chance to ask Hornady to make a new .224 50-55gr coyote bullet. Things have gotten carried away if you go hunting with a 4pm rifle and a 7:30pm rifle just because the hunter insists on shooting a Vmax and only a Vmax for its gopher effects. Hornady themselves know they havent offered anything new in .223 for coyotes since the Spire Point(copper CX they advertise for coyotes, they look cool but never seen or heard of any available or being used.) Vmax is everywhere, if you like them then shoot them but if you insist Vmax are the best bullet possible, only make archery shots, carry a golf bag of rifles for times of day and insist Hornady shouldnt offer anything else you're just on the red Cool-Aid.

Some guys just dont want to possibly think their gear could have some flaws. You know the guys; if their rifle doesnt group it was always because of their flinch.... etc. If a bullet vaporizes on coyotes skeleton thats the shooters fault.,.. thats the Cool-Aid buzz speaking. Im a life long archery hunter, more than any other hunting by far, i know what shot placement means.

Skinney, thats a great hunting video, seriously, top notch. Thats not how coyote hunting works around here on northern MN public land though, ive got more homes and people around, more dense cover, more wolves and no open rolling hillside prairies. I just turned 39 and Ive seen less than 10 coyotes in day light, that includes my childhood, driving up and down the road, working, deer hunting, trying to day call coyotes.... A few days ago I called in a coyote that got under 30yards away, I heard it but never saw it and it never stopped moving. The longest Ive waited to take a shot on a coyote was under 8 seconds and they were 60 yards away when i shot. I hunt with a 223 at night... Im not bashing Hornady, I have lots of their stuff, i listen to the podcast, their competition long range bullet line is 10x better than it was 5 or 8 years ago. Hornady just got super lucky the Vmax caught on like it did way past its Pdog roots and at this point any reasonable coyote hunter would be asking for a new coyote bullet, thats what Hornady is doing right now, designing bullets for the coyote crowd for the first time, give them suggestions.
 
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Have shot 2 coyotes with 65 grain Vmax 2 splashesThey were close.A Vmax slowed down some works a lot better.Now shoot 85 grain Vmax and have not had any problems.First splash with 65 grainer was head on in chest knocked him down and 5 minutes later he got up and was staggering off.22 Creed stopped him/
 
Rock Knocker said:
I'm not sure who Mr. Tim Anderson is, he sounds like a cool guy though.

Hornady themselves say that Vmax should not be used on coyotes, they designed them for gophers.

Hornady themselves say they switch to larger calibers at night because of run offs.

Hornady knows the Pdog market has died and coyotes taken its place, the only thing Hornady has done for coyote hunters is the ELD VT which is just a longer gopher bullet and cant be loaded at magazine length in 223.

Coyote hunters have a chance to ask Hornady to make a new .224 50-55gr coyote bullet. Things have gotten carried away if you go hunting with a 4pm rifle and a 7:30pm rifle just because the hunter insists on shooting a Vmax and only a Vmax for its gopher effects. Hornady themselves know they havent offered anything new in .223 for coyotes since the Spire Point(copper CX they advertise for coyotes, they look cool but never seen or heard of any available or being used.) Vmax is everywhere, if you like them then shoot them but if you insist Vmax are the best bullet possible, only make archery shots, carry a golf bag of rifles for times of day and insist Hornady shouldnt offer anything else you're just on the red Cool-Aid.

Some guys just dont want to possibly think their gear could have some flaws. You know the guys; if their rifle doesnt group it was always because of their flinch.... etc. If a bullet vaporizes on coyotes skeleton thats the shooters fault.,.. thats the Cool-Aid buzz speaking. Im a life long archery hunter, more than any other hunting by far, i know what shot placement means.

Skinney, thats a great hunting video, seriously, top notch. Thats not how coyote hunting works around here on northern MN public land though, ive got more homes and people around, more dense cover, more wolves and no open rolling hillside prairies. I just turned 39 and Ive seen less than 10 coyotes in day light, that includes my childhood, driving up and down the road, working, deer hunting, trying to day call coyotes.... A few days ago I called in a coyote that got under 30yards away, I heard it but never saw it and it never stopped moving. The longest Ive waited to take a shot on a coyote was under 8 seconds and they were 60 yards away when i shot. I hunt with a 223 at night... Im not bashing Hornady, I have lots of their stuff, i listen to the podcast, their competition long range bullet line is 10x better than it was 5 or 8 years ago. Hornady just got super lucky the Vmax caught on like it did way past its Pdog roots and at this point any reasonable coyote hunter would be asking for a new coyote bullet, thats what Hornady is doing right now, designing bullets for the coyote crowd for the first time, give them suggestions.
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If my family plans work out, I plan on being up in northern Minnesota on my father in laws property. Hopefully in the next couple of weeks. If that happens, I’ll bring my bow hunting, prairie, red cool aid vmax bullets up with me and see how they do, again.

I’ll have to say, I’ve already been up there and had success with the .224 vmax bullets previously though. In 3 days this past summer, I saw 5 daylight coyotes up there in the woods.

I’ll keep you posted if it happens.
 
An anecdote for the fun of it. Years ago I won a 200-round case of factory .223 Rem 53-grain Vmax ammo at a Predator Masters convention. I spent the next few years burning that ammo up in my 18" barreled AR shooting coyotes. They all died, most with one shot, though a few with poor shot placement required follow-ups. When that ammo ran out, I bought 55 grainers to replace it. I like it less, but those bullets work just fine on coyotes, with most just tipping over like those in skinney's videos. When I burn through the 150 rounds of 55 grain Vmaxes, I'll probably go back to 53 grainers.
 
Rock Knocker said:
Thats not how coyote hunting works around here on northern MN public land though, ive got more homes and people around, more dense cover, more wolves and no open rolling hillside prairies.
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I’ll mention it, yet again… nobody is making you shoot Vmax in your environment. Nobody is telling you not to use something more to your liking.

Some people... Most actually, would not, and do not take the shot that you keep mentioning. There’s a reason for that. You have a reason that you do take the shot. Use what works for you and your circumstances. You seem to want to be right on this subject. Problem is that theres a lot of history that doesn’t measure up to your way of thinking!

Post some pics, and tell us some stories about what does work for you! We would all rather congratulate you, rather than argue about the effectiveness of a bullet!
 
So there is a guy that shot 8ish coyotes with a bullet. Then there are multiple guys that have shot 100+ with that bullet. Yet the guy that shot 8ish coyotes is correct and everyone else is incorrect. I believe I’m caught up now.

I’ve killed a lot of coyotes with Vmax and the 52 ELD. I like the 53 Vmax the best compared to the 50 Vmax, 52 ELD, and 53 Vmax.

It kills just as well but seems to do less exterior damage.
 
My favorite coyote load for night hunting is a VMAX…a 120 grain VMAX in a 7mm-08!!

What is this “splash” you speak of?? I think I see it…usually on the far side of the coyote. Splashed all over the field! 😝
 
I think it all boils down to what you plan to do with your rifle and what animals you may encounter. I've primarily used a .223 throughout my time predator hunting. Killed coyotes with 40,45,50,52,53,55 and 60 grain bullets of different types. Just for the simple fact that I like to try new bullets. But over time and I started hunting where hogs were something I encountered I decided a tougher bullet was required for less than perfect shots with that cartridge. The .223 really isn't the best choice for hogs as it is but I have seen a V-Max blow up on a feral pigs head from short range using a 300 blackout. I've shot them as they ran off and got nothing more than a squeal out of it with V-Max out of the .223 and 300 Blackout.

But I've also seen 50 grain Superformance drop them dead when shot behind the ear with a 22-250. But you don't always get that perfect shot. Much like the coyotes we speak of. I've dropped them stone dead with V-Max bullets shooting a .17WSM and piles of other things with them out of a .17HMR through the years when I was presented with a head on or broadside shot. But I've lost some critters I wouldn't have with a different bullet as well. The last thing I remember shooting with a V-Max out of my .223 was a big badger running straight away. It got in a hole and I never recovered it. Was it poor shot placement? Of course, I was shooting it in the butt. Having said that I've made that shot with a .22mag using 40 grain JHP's a bunch of times. Never lost one until that day and haven't since. A different bullet would have folded it up.

I'm not knocking anyone for shooting a V-Max for coyotes. I just ain't the type of shooter that waits for that perfect shot. Sometimes you can't because they ain't gonna stop and give you one. I take what's given and I want a bullet that's gonna reach past the guts of an animal if it's facing the opposite direction or at least do enough damage that I can get another one on target. Heck I'll even go so far as to say the 87 grain V-Max is the best bullet for coyotes I've personally seen when shot out of a .243, much better than the 58 grain variant. But that's only due to the massive damage the lighter bullets do to fur.

Take my experience for what it's worth because I'm not just talking coyotes. I've shot hundreds of badgers, raccoons, coyotes, hogs and countless skunks and other small creatures with V-Max. And I'll kill more animals with plastic tipped bullets over time. I'm just going to have to be mindful about what shots I'm taking depending on what cartridge it's on top of. A V-Max fired from a .243 is a different beast than one fired from a .224 or .17 or .20 caliber cartridge. Just gotta know your limits and shoot accordingly.

But if I absolutely have to have one bullet that I'm confident will kill or at least stop any animal I run across it's not gonna have a plastic tip on it unless it's there to make a bonded bullet fly straighter. Because if I have to shoot at something moving I might hit bone. There's a pretty good chance of it. And I ain't out there investing time, effort and money into it to watch things run off. Whether they have extra holes in them or not. I'm shootin 'em whether they're walking, trotting, running or standing still as a statue. And I want them to fall over dead or at least roll around on the ground so I can dome them with the next one.

V-Max work great if you have the picture perfect shot on an animal. But I don't live in a perfect world and I don't expect that animal to stop and give me that opportunity when things go wrong and its instincts to survive kick in. My instincts to kill it before it gets away kick in and I know me. I'll shoot it in the butt to make that happen. I've watched me do it. Lets say a coyote pops his head up over sagebrush. I've seen a 50 grain V-Max blow a coyotes teeth out and mangle its lips but it was still very much alive. I'd rather shoot a bullet that pulls its teeth right on out the back of its head. Those frangible bullets just don't get done what I need them to in some instances.
 
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OKRattler said:
I've seen a 50 grain V-Max blow a coyotes teeth out and mangle its lips but it was still very much alive. I'd rather shoot a bullet that pulls its teeth right on out the back of its head. Those frangible bullets just don't get done what I need them to in some instances.
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Funny enough, I was out with the thermal last night and took a head shot with the 53 gr vmax. It deflated his head. According to my onX, it was 273 yards. That would put my impact velocity at 2493 fps.
 

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Duhhh said:
Funny enough, I was out with the thermal last night and took a head shot with the 53 gr vmax. It deflated his head. According to my onX, it was 273 yards. That would put my impact velocity at 2493 fps.
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No way a 53gr Vmax did that Duhhh! That was obviously some armor piercing, Salt Creek moly coated tungsten, 458 Winchester, government issued, heat seeking grenade ammo! Probably point blank too!
 
Duhhh said:
Funny enough, I was out with the thermal last night and took a head shot with the 53 gr vmax. It deflated his head. According to my onX, it was 273 yards. That would put my impact velocity at 2493 fps.
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I was about 50 yards from the coyote I shot in the teeth with my AR using Fiocchi 50 grain V-Max out of a 16 1/2" barrel. Which I will add was and still is the most accurate bullet I ever shot out of my bolt gun. I have a picture somewhere of a bullet hole in that tiny white square on the back of a coke can. But it definitely didn't do anything but mangle that coyotes mouth. I shot plenty of others that died right away. But I didn't hit them in the teeth either. Or any other bone for that matter.

Also I don't believe all V-Max are created equal. For example I shot a coyote from somewhere in the ballpark of 150 yards with my buddies .17WSM and that bullet went clear through it. It didn't do what it was designed to do. The shot connected right behind the shoulder and she made it maybe 25 yards. I've drilled a coyote directly in the shoulder at around 50 yards with a 50 grain Superformance out of my 22-250 and it spun a few times and fell over dead. It had every opportunity in the world to splash if it was going to but it drilled through that shoulder and stayed inside the body. I also shot a big boar with that same bullet out of the same cartridge. Hit it right behind the ear and it flattened him. So results with the V-Max haven't always been bad. But I do believe some are more frangible than others. I can honestly say whatever Winchester calls their plastic tipped bullet in that Varmint X load are absolutely junk. I've shot very few coyotes with that bullet that didn't require another shot. They're highly frangible. I'd suggest shooting prairie dogs and jackrabbits with those and that's about it. The results I've had with those polymer tipped bullets are so vast that I do believe some are more capable of a humane kill than others. And I've had plenty of test subjects. Enough to fill several truck beds to the brim. But having said that if I shoot a hand full of coyotes with a bullet and I have to shoot them again I probably won't be shooting that bullet much after that.

Those Varmint X bullets for example. I shot 6 coyotes one day with the same bullet. All but two needed to be shot again. I picked one up and my buddy pointed out that he could see sunlight through its neck. Believe it or not that coyote was still alive. Maybe it was an unusually tough animal. Which it was obviously but if I'm shooting a coyote in the neck it shouldn't have a hole in it big enough to see sunlight through. That tells me that bullet is fragmenting super quick. A coyote on the box don't mean jack to me. That has been mentioned a lot in this thread. When you pick up a box of Winchester Varmint X the first thing you see is a coyote. The Varmint X shotgun shells are awesome on coyotes but those rifle bullets flat out suck.

V-Max bullets or any of the plastic tipped bullets are all marketed like they'll do the same thing. Which just ain't true. I believe some make a good coyote bullet. Some need to be shot at prairie dogs and ground squirrels. I've shot piles upon piles of predators figuring out which ones I trust in my rifles. All of us have that same ability. I ain't telling anyone what to shoot but I can highly suggest what not to shoot based off of what I've seen. If you choose to not believe it, go shoot those bullets and share your experience. That's all I'd know to tell someone. What's it to me if someone has to follow a blood trail for a hundred yards? Why should I care if someone's pissed because that coyote that could win you a contest or make your fur check look better is blowed up and running off somewhere on three legs? I've had to be pissed because of it, you might as well know what that's like too. It's a good learning experience. Don't take it from me I ain't trying to rob anyone of a long walk looking for blood.
 
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I think it's worth pointing out that just because an animal doesn't drt every time you pull the trigger, that doesn't mean that the bullet sucks. I have killed many hundreds of whitetail deer, nearing or in excess of a thousand. I’ve seen them run 200y straight up hill with their heart liquefied, not a piece left as big as your thumbnail, then ive seen them hit in no man's land, and they slam to the ground like they were struck by lightning. I've seen them shot through both shoulders, both front legs broken, and they will jump a hundred yards on their hind legs, driving the destroyed front legs into the ground with every leap. There is an absolute variability in will to live in animals. Coyotes have significantly more will to live than deer do, in my opinion. My partner put a 140gr 6.5 bullet through a coyote at 200y. I was sitting next to him shooting at his friend's. This coyote was chest on. He hit it solid, centered it. The bullet went end to end. When the smoke cleared we went out to pick them up and this thing was gone. There was what looked like a 5 gallon bucket of blood on the ground, the contents of its bowels, and about 6" of it's tail. We tracked it for more than 500y, just dumping blood everywhere, until it ran out of blood more or less, and then we gave up. We found it on the adjacent farm a few days later, and it was blown apart. It made it over 800y with it's entire body destroyed. So when they don't just bang flop when you hit them with a 55gr bullet, remember, it's not always that simple.
 
Hecouldgoalltheway said:
I think it's worth pointing out that just because an animal doesn't drt every time you pull the trigger, that doesn't mean that the bullet sucks. I have killed many hundreds of whitetail deer, nearing or in excess of a thousand. I’ve seen them run 200y straight up hill with their heart liquefied, not a piece left as big as your thumbnail, then ive seen them hit in no man's land, and they slam to the ground like they were struck by lightning. I've seen them shot through both shoulders, both front legs broken, and they will jump a hundred yards on their hind legs, driving the destroyed front legs into the ground with every leap. There is an absolute variability in will to live in animals. Coyotes have significantly more will to live than deer do, in my opinion. My partner put a 140gr 6.5 bullet through a coyote at 200y. I was sitting next to him shooting at his friend's. This coyote was chest on. He hit it solid, centered it. The bullet went end to end. When the smoke cleared we went out to pick them up and this thing was gone. There was what looked like a 5 gallon bucket of blood on the ground, the contents of its bowels, and about 6" of it's tail. We tracked it for more than 500y, just dumping blood everywhere, until it ran out of blood more or less, and then we gave up. We found it on the adjacent farm a few days later, and it was blown apart. It made it over 800y with it's entire body destroyed. So when they don't just bang flop when you hit them with a 55gr bullet, remember, it's not always that simple.
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You're absolutely right. Coyotes are tough. But I can without a doubt say the Winchester Varmint X 55 grain bullets I've shot out of my 22-250 are terrible. About the only good thing I can say is they blew coyotes up so bad they weren't able to run off.

We've all had coyotes get shot in the heart and some drop over dead and some run 25 yards before piling up. These were different. I don't like walking up on a coyote, reaching down to get it and it either snaps at me or is laying there looking up at me. All the while they have a massive hole in them and they're too hurt to do anything. They deserve better than that. One shot kills aren't possible every single time. But I will say over a span of 3 days I shot 18 coyotes with 55 grain softpoints and I didn't have any run anywhere. The 30+ throughout the season after those didn't go anywhere either with only a few requiring another shot to put them down. To no fault of the bullet, I put it in a bad spot. It's one thing to shoot one and have it running dead on its feet. But I don't want to shoot bullets I've had wound coyotes even with good shot placement. I don't expect every bullet to drop them right where they're standing. But if you get more than a few in a row that are wounded, that's not normal. With a good bullet more often than not they'll fall over right where they're standing.
 
Was elk hunting and had a coyote come jogging out of the timber on to a skid trail and stop. He was fairly close at about 60-ish yards and quartering to me. Shot him with a 180gr Speer Grand Slam from the 300 Wby I was hunting with at the time. It was close enough I could see the blood and guts splatter out of this thing through my scope so I was beyond shocked when it bolted and sprinted for 10-15yds then just pilled up like a rag doll. It was definitely one of those WTF moments and an even bigger WTF moment when I walked up to this thing and flipped it over to see the exit side of things and it literally looked like someone had taken one of those old school military can opens, you know the ones guys would keep on the key ring, and opened this coyote with it from his left rear leg to his left front leg and any of his internals were either blowed up or what little was still left was all on the outside there was little to nothing left on the inside of this things body cavity. How the hell it was able to run, ANY, amount of distance is beyond me but it did. I talked to a good buddy of mine that's an ER Dr. that also hunts a lot and he said he wasn't really surprised by it and how unless it does something to disrupt the central nervous system to the brain you'd be surprised what animals including humans can endure until they run out of blood flow. Naturally his version was far more detailed but you get the idea.

Point being, just because they aren't all bang flops doesn't mean it's the bullets fault or you made a bad shot.

Big game hunting Berger bullets take a lot of trash talking and it always cracks me up when I read how some guy shot his elk with a POS Berger bullet and how it was a TOTAL BULLET FAILURE yet they're standing next to the dead elk in the pictures they post.
 
OKRattler said:
I was about 50 yards from the coyote I shot in the teeth with my AR using Fiocchi 50 grain V-Max out of a 16 1/2" barrel. Which I will add was and still is the most accurate bullet I ever shot out of my bolt gun. I have a picture somewhere of a bullet hole in that tiny white square on the back of a coke can. But it definitely didn't do anything but mangle that coyotes mouth. I shot plenty of others that died right away. But I didn't hit them in the teeth either. Or any other bone for that matter.

Also I don't believe all V-Max are created equal. For example I shot a coyote from somewhere in the ballpark of 150 yards with my buddies .17WSM and that bullet went clear through it. It didn't do what it was designed to do. The shot connected right behind the shoulder and she made it maybe 25 yards. I've drilled a coyote directly in the shoulder at around 50 yards with a 50 grain Superformance out of my 22-250 and it spun a few times and fell over dead. It had every opportunity in the world to splash if it was going to but it drilled through that shoulder and stayed inside the body. I also shot a big boar with that same bullet out of the same cartridge. Hit it right behind the ear and it flattened him. So results with the V-Max haven't always been bad. But I do believe some are more frangible than others. I can honestly say whatever Winchester calls their plastic tipped bullet in that Varmint X load are absolutely junk. I've shot very few coyotes with that bullet that didn't require another shot. They're highly frangible. I'd suggest shooting prairie dogs and jackrabbits with those and that's about it. The results I've had with those polymer tipped bullets are so vast that I do believe some are more capable of a humane kill than others. And I've had plenty of test subjects. Enough to fill several truck beds to the brim. But having said that if I shoot a hand full of coyotes with a bullet and I have to shoot them again I probably won't be shooting that bullet much after that.

Those Varmint X bullets for example. I shot 6 coyotes one day with the same bullet. All but two needed to be shot again. I picked one up and my buddy pointed out that he could see sunlight through its neck. Believe it or not that coyote was still alive. Maybe it was an unusually tough animal. Which it was obviously but if I'm shooting a coyote in the neck it shouldn't have a hole in it big enough to see sunlight through. That tells me that bullet is fragmenting super quick. A coyote on the box don't mean jack to me. That has been mentioned a lot in this thread. When you pick up a box of Winchester Varmint X the first thing you see is a coyote. The Varmint X shotgun shells are awesome on coyotes but those rifle bullets flat out suck.

V-Max bullets or any of the plastic tipped bullets are all marketed like they'll do the same thing. Which just ain't true. I believe some make a good coyote bullet. Some need to be shot at prairie dogs and ground squirrels. I've shot piles upon piles of predators figuring out which ones I trust in my rifles. All of us have that same ability. I ain't telling anyone what to shoot but I can highly suggest what not to shoot based off of what I've seen. If you choose to not believe it, go shoot those bullets and share your experience. That's all I'd know to tell someone. What's it to me if someone has to follow a blood trail for a hundred yards? Why should I care if someone's pissed because that coyote that could win you a contest or make your fur check look better is blowed up and running off somewhere on three legs? I've had to be pissed because of it, you might as well know what that's like too. It's a good learning experience. Don't take it from me I ain't trying to rob anyone of a long walk looking for blood.
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Maybe I’m wrong here, but that 17 WSM compared to that 22-250 is a classic example of the velocity. You shoot a 52gr A-Max or a BTHP Match out of a 223 AI into jell, then do it with a 22-243 and the expansion difference is not in the same conversation, but neither was the penetration.
 
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