Thoughts on 53g vmax.

Rock Knocker said:
You can see in the video the direct hit of the Vmax stopped the 30-35lb(?) coyote for under a second then it runs off, whats it going to do to an armored 230lb badguy??!!! And the 22-250 and wildcat guys are going to run into the same thing at longer range.

I hope ANTIFA loads vmax.
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The first shot in that video looks like he hit it a little low and sort of on the bone portion of the leg. The second video he definitely shot guts and he even said so. That third one looked like he could have got lung or guts. Hard to really tell what’s going on without dissecting them and seeing the damage first hand.

I shoot the 53 grain vmax in my 1:8 twist 22-250. My current load is going 3470fps. Last March I shot a coyote at 685 yards with the above load, impact velocity was 1495fps (according to my data). Coyote dropped on the spot and died like they usually do with that bullet. I should have skinned that one to see what the damage looked like but I wasn’t as interested in bullet performance at the time.

Since January 1, 2025, I’ve killed 20 coyotes with the same load above and the 53 gr vmax. Just about everything has died without fuss when I’ve made a good shot. Here’s one from a 220 yard frontal shot the other week. Impact velocity was 2724 fps. I bet my impact velocity on this coyote was real close to that guys 1st shot with the 223 in that video.
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Full disclosure, I know guys have some bad experiences with hornady and I’m not trying to persuade you to keep using them. Just giving some data. I’ve also never had a bullet splash on an animal. Not saying it can’t happen, I just haven’t had the unfortunate experience of having one. I’d be interested to see a picture of an animal that took a splashed bullet though.
 
alf said:
22-250 Ackley, 75 grain A-Max at 3500, shot was 225 yards.

Turned & ran 100 yards, crawled under a log & gasping his last when I found him.

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Sweet you’re the first one to show some evidence haha. You said Gasping though, so do you think the bullet fragged enough to pierce organ tissues?
 
Duhhh said:
Sweet you’re the first one to show some evidence haha. You said Gasping though, so do you think the bullet fragged enough to pierce organ tissues?
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Not sure if it was due to bullet frag, or shoulder/rib bone frags, or combination there of.

After that, I switched to 75 Bergers, but then sold the gun before I shot anything else with it.
 
Duhhh said:
Sweet you’re the first one to show some evidence haha. You said Gasping though, so do you think the bullet fragged enough to pierce organ tissues?
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I just spent way too dang long looking for my splash pictures but I must have deleted them. I had a few when I was playing with stretching speeds in my 20 practical. They looked identical to alfs photo. The little 32 VMAX doesn't like extreme speed apparently. On mine the hide around the hole would be separated from the body and there would be a hand size exposed hole. Some required a second shot and some had parts of bullet get inside enough to do the job.
 
Yotarunner said:
I just spent way too dang long looking for my splash pictures but I must have deleted them. I had a few when I was playing with stretching speeds in my 20 practical. They looked identical to alfs photo. The little 32 VMAX doesn't like extreme speed apparently. On mine the hide around the hole would be separated from the body and there would be a hand size exposed hole. Some required a second shot and some had parts of bullet get inside enough to do the job.
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alf said:
Not sure if it was due to bullet frag, or shoulder/rib bone frags, or combination there of.

After that, I switched to 75 Bergers, but then sold the gun before I shot anything else with it.
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Interesting for sure. Do you guys think barrel twist, RPMs, and velocity have anything to do with it?

My speeds have always been a little moderate or slow compared to most. Guessing that helps a bit.
 
Duhhh said:
Interesting for sure. Do you guys think barrel twist, RPMs, and velocity have anything to do with it?

My speeds have always been a little moderate or slow compared to most. Guessing that helps a bit.
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I'm sure they all play a roll, as would bullet construction like jacket thickness & toughness, & nose cavity width & depth.

Mine was a quartering at me shot, but you would think the physical bullet weight & momentum would be somewhat in your favor.

So lotsa velocity & RPM can put you on the ragged edge of bullet integrity leading to a potential disaster & disappointment.😭😭😭
 
I also tried the .204 32 vmax on coyote. Last one was 75 feet, broadside in the pocket. No pics because I watched it walk on to the neighbors property (I don't have trespass permission) the next day, slightly bloody right behind the shoulder. Out of my 20p 10 twist. Other vmax bullets have been removed from my list of coyote bullets.
 
Duhhh said:
Interesting for sure. Do you guys think barrel twist, RPMs, and velocity have anything to do with it?

My speeds have always been a little moderate or slow compared to most. Guessing that helps a bit.
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Absolutely they do. Personally I think that's why you get constant argument whenever calibers, twist rates, bullet types etc. I have a friend up here in canuck land who is an absolute killer that nerds out over bullet choices in many calibers. We have both shot the exact same bullets at the exact same speeds and had wildly different results. My guess is because he runs faster twist barrels in most of his stuff.
With the Vmax I have found that taking the max speed they are usually running at in factory loads and dropping it 200 fps or so seems to be the sweet spot for fur. Those 32 VMAX that were all splashy worked great once I stopped trying to race them up so fast.
 
Yotarunner said:
Absolutely they do. Personally I think that's why you get constant argument whenever calibers, twist rates, bullet types etc. I have a friend up here in canuck land who is an absolute killer that nerds out over bullet choices in many calibers. We have both shot the exact same bullets at the exact same speeds and had wildly different results. My guess is because he runs faster twist barrels in most of his stuff.
With the Vmax I have found that taking the max speed they are usually running at in factory loads and dropping it 200 fps or so seems to be the sweet spot for fur. Those 32 VMAX that were all splashy worked great once I stopped trying to race them up so fast.
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That makes sense. Guess I should reconsider that slower twist 22 creed when my 22-250 barrels toast.
 
The picture I posted before was huge splash damage, but it was only the side the coyote was laying on, you can even see on the blurred picture with the coyote laying on the bad side, splash damage and 300 yard sprint covered the coyote in blood, you can even see in the picture the tail was soaked in blood and it never stopped and rolled just ran until it dropped, it was a ruined mess. And all fox look just as bad but at least they dont run 300 yards.

That fox was hit with 65 SGK and the pelt was fine, a Vmax would have ruined it.

Both these coyotes were 65 SGK, no pelt damage. I would have more bloody mess Vmax pictures but the coyotes got away.

Alf I would love to try some 52 Berger Match bullets but ive never seen them for sale locally, I had a random 100 box of 53gr Sierra HP I just coated with HBN I was going to test load soon. Right now though Im so dang happy with my TSX load Ive even stopped using my beloved 65SGK.
 
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BleedsBlue said:
It's my belief that modern tipped varmit bullets require slow speeds to prevent instantaneous fragmentation on contact.
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It's my belief that modern tipped varmint bullets should be left for the modern liberal shooters. And the bullets are literally designed for instantaneous fragmentation, even the earliest rifling developments were moving to faster twist rates for more benefits. To me its just moving backwards for bullets made to explode rodents to hopefully work better on coyotes, why though when theres so many bullets that work so much better at so many more things. Its just a handicap for a fun novelty concept that began by guys wanting to launch prairie dogs as high into the air as they could.

Look at Hornadys website, for what thats worth they dont even suggest Vmax for more than rodents. They have a couple .224 they suggest for coyotes.
 
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Rock Knocker said:
It's my belief that modern tipped varmint bullets should be left for the modern liberal shooters. And the bullets are literally designed for instantaneous fragmentation, even the earliest rifling developments were moving to faster twist rates for more benefits. To me its just moving backwards for bullets made to explode rodents to hopefully work better on coyotes, why though when theres so many bullets that work so much better at so many more things. Its just a handicap for a fun novelty concept that began by guys wanting to launch prairie dogs as high into the air as they could.
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How many coyotes have you actually shot with a vmax?
 
It seems that modern cartridges and bullets are designed to cater to libtard paper punchers that have never been outside in the dark.

As soon as I see a post saying that they want to shoot 1000 yards I know with 90% certainty that they will never actually kill a coyote.

I guess we can't blame manufacturers for catering to this liberal ideology because it makes them lots of revenue. But don't pee on me and say it's raining expecting me to agree.
 
Duhhh said:
How many coyotes have you actually shot with a vmax?
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I stopped using them maybe ten years ago, and only for 7/8th a season, I used the 52 berger varmints the season before that with very similar results. Me and my 2 hunting buddies made matching 16" BHW rifles and I loaded the ammo so take my experience x3.

52's a hair worse, but Vmax I think I can remember 1 DRT head on chest shot, 1 DRT broadside shot I must have missed all ribs and wasnt too happy with exit damage, 2 recovered quartered shoulder mess shots and 3 run offs. I dont remember all my buddies but similar enough.

Say what you want about numbers, shooting and shot placement but almost half my coyotes got away with vmax and most were a weird mess, I havent lost 1 (as long as i didnt miss) with SGK or TSX and ive been using them since, im not hunting like I used to but im way happier and gives far more confidence with a 16" carbine. I started out reloading and went straight to the cool new varmint bullets but you just have to compare side to side, I just saw the old ugly SP without the red tip and sexy tangent ogive working a lot better in most ways. 52 HP varmints I thought were a bit worse and even softer metal, if you want soft, a Lee factory crimp die would start deforming the bullet before any noticable crimp, you could start squishing the bullet in a small pliers with you hand, I saw the base of a 52 fall out of the gaping entrance splash when getting skun.

I would love to see a tougher Vmax, Vmax price and availability with closer to Nosler BT performance. Vmax bonded, or thicker jacket, harder core, maybe less air space behind the plastic tip...? I just get my panties all knotted up because everyone thinks theyre awesome and we just keep getting more soft bullet designs.
 
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alf said:
After that, I switched to 75 Bergers, but then sold the gun before I shot anything else with it.
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I've shot quite a few coyotes with 75gr Bergers out of a 22-6mm. Once I found where they wanted to be seated, the old style VLD's tend to be seating depth sensitive, they shot extremely well, BUT, I've had mixed results with them. They would either leave a big gapping hole or they would nearly pencil straight through. I'm a Berger bullet fan and in all fairness I've never lost a dog to them but for me there is never really any middle ground they either leave a tiny little entrance and barely a bigger exit or they would open them up. Dead is dead so it doesn't really matter but I've never been a pelt saver so for me the bigger the hole the better I like it.
 
Rock Knocker said:
Look at Hornadys website, for what thats worth they dont even suggest Vmax for more than rodents. They have a couple .224 they suggest for coyotes.
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And the sgk and tsx bullets are marketed for deer hunting, what's your point?
If you would like I can go outside and take pictures of my coyotes hanging with next to no blood, single holes, and perfect fur I even have a bonus badger that died from those bullets "made to explode rodents"
Not saying the tsx and sgk don't work but I'm also saying you need to take a larger sample size before you call everyone liberals for using bullets proven to work.
 
Yotarunner said:
And the sgk and tsx bullets are marketed for deer hunting, what's your point?
If you would like I can go outside and take pictures of my coyotes hanging with next to no blood, single holes, and perfect fur I even have a bonus badger that died from those bullets "made to explode rodents"
Not saying the tsx and sgk don't work but I'm also saying you need to take a larger sample size before you call everyone liberals for using bullets proven to work.
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Exactly, in my little 16" carbine I would much rather have hunting bullets designed for even more than I need rather than have a novelty rodent bullet, i havent seen a SGK or TSX fail.

Im in the norther MN woods, not the prairies or desert, last night I had a coyote under 30 yards away I couldnt see. Clearings and openings you can see small coyote slinking around further than 100 yards is RARE and they are so used to all the heavy cover if you call them into the open they dont take their time, coyotes pop up, they run through, there is no waiting for a head on shot or broadside shot, you get what you get, you're lucky if a bark will get them to stop moving, thats why a relaxed coyote is almost always angled towards me looking for the call. I aim for vitals and hit where I aim, often a bone is in the way, many bullets can go through bone, any hunting bullet should. A bit ago a guy was telling me vmax was the best hog bullet because he shoots them at the base of the spine and it only severs the cord... That like saying a .22LR is the best cow bullet cause you can walk up and shoot them between the eyes.

My question to the Vmax shooters is, what other bullets have you tried on coyotes? And sorry, I didnt mean everyone a liberal who shoots vmax, i just hope that liberals do shoot vmax...! I dont want my friends to have to defend themselves with prairie dog bullets.
 
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Rock Knocker said:
Exactly, in my little 16" carbine I would much rather have hunting bullets designed for even more than I need rather than have a novelty rodent bullet.

Im in the norther MN woods, not the prairies, last night I had a coyote under 30 yards away I couldnt see. Clearings and openings you can see small coyote slinking around further than 100 yards is RARE, coyotes pop up, they run through, there is no waiting for a head on shot or broadside shot, you get what you get, you're lucky if a bark will get them to stop moving. I aim for vitals and hit where I aim, often a bone is in the way, many bullets can go through bone.

My question to the Vmax shooters is, what other bullets have you tried on coyotes? And sorry, I didnt call everyone a liberal who shoots vmax, i just hope that liberals do shoot vmax...!
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Honestly if you are admitting you take less than marginal shots then I will agree VMAX or other varmint bullets will not be ideal for your situation.
To simplify it I will go with just the bullet make and just know they are 20, 22, and6mm
Calhoun double hollow point
Hornady sp
Hornady bthp
Hornady eldm
Berger vld
Sierra gameking
Sierra blitzking
Speer sp
Nosler bt
And that's all I can think of off the top of my head. I have tsx's but they won't shoot in my twist rates.
 
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