Different results - heres why



With all this watching what did you learn??
Has it put more numbers on the stretchers or increased youre success rate. Has it made you a better caller?

By going back to some of youre posts in the last year or so youre numbers have stayed close to the same or have gone down when with all this watching youre number of kills should have increased if you learned anything.
 
TA,

When I was younger. It was all about killing. I killed as often & as many as I could. I never cut any of them any slack.

Over the yrs, I wanted to learn more about the coyotes. So I backed off on the killing greatly. I don't regret doing that. As observing, has offered me so much more I come to enjoy. Maybe you wouldn't understand.

Watching rather than killing. Has also helped me understand to kill more efficiently. Had I chose to do that.

As for the killing. I fare pretty well to this day. Coyotes never have or do to this day. Offer much in price for their fur. It's hard to imagine paying the bills from fur taking after all expense's are paid in the process.

Not to bash group hunting. As it is another form of hunting. I've just never been a real fan of it. As IMO, there is nothing that can compare to a one on one, with the coyotes.

As for numbers & killing. Some yrs back[season of 03-04] I stalked 20 coyotes all that season. I killed 14 of that 20. 11 of that 20, I missed intentionally. As I wanted to give them a chance, et killed them on the fly. No brag, just a fact.

Interesting discussion, I pretty well beat this dead horse. So I'm done now.

Good shooting to you
 
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Here's a fun little game we can all play. No prizes, just good old fashioned fun!

Who wrote the following on the 7th day of the 4th month in the year 2009? Good luck to all.
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"I'm still hammering away at the coyotes here at home trying to get one called in..I think i have made over 200 and some stands in the last year and a half and called one in last spring and i just took a few pic's of it and let it walk.."
 
Why i wrote that.. LOL
I've never denied it either. The coyote numbers are pretty low here, when i hunt with the crew we hunt 2-3 counties or more just to kill 150 some coyotes a year.. The coyote i mentioed in youre paste was called in and killed this spring and i also got it on vidio.. Like i mentioned to Kirby i and the group hunt for fur and we don't care how we get them as long as we do and we don't break any laws to do it..
If a guy takes into account of how much work is envolved when compareing calling vrs. hunting vrs, trapping, hunting is the toughest and most could'nt do it day in and day out for very long..
If you would do some more searches you will also find that i do call alot of coyotes in each year just not here at home. My hunting and calling gets better and better each year, i'm always willing to learn and learn from my mistakes and i see this year as being a boomer of a year..
If you would do another search in the "Great white north" i did a couple of surveys for the southern half of the state, from the replys no-one else is doing so hot..LOL
On another note; i know Kirby is semi retired thats why i razz him so much, maybe i can get his interest back up to where it should be and he can go out and kill a mess of coyotes he is too young to be giveing up so early..LOL
 
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i was thinking the same thing doggin, and kirby hasnt mentioned having to go to school to learn about calling coyotes either, for the most part this is a very good post, kirby you have brought up some very good points, ryan
 
Alot of good and some great trappers have gone to some form of schooling or instruction along the way. And learned from O'Gorman, Steve Craig
, Leggett just to name a few..
Its made them a better trapper or caller.. By learning from some of the best it really helps shorten the learning curve.
 
This has been a very interesting thread & a ton of knowledge has been added. Thought I would post this to possibly return to original intent…

I had a guy call me that had permission to hunt a farm with a lot of recent coyote sightings. He had never killed a coyote before & wanted me to go with him, as he had been several times with no kills.

From as soon as we got out of the truck, I started thinking about this thread. He was aware enough not to slam doors or park too close. He talked a lot but tried to keep his voice to a whisper but was louder than needed to be. He was wearing rubber boots but they “flop-whapped” with every step, & never even paid attention to the wind. All things that offer: “different results”

I wanted to try this as a learning tool; so I’m going to post a photo of the hunt to give everyone an opportunity to make there “set-up” & then I’ll post what I/we did. Not saying I was right, but we did call 3 coyotes. A single came in @ 7 minutes. My hunting partner missed a near broadside shot ~95 yards as the coyote was starring toward the foxpro (50-60 yards away from us). Then at ~22 minutes, a pair came in and he redeemed himself with the second shot.

I’d be interested to hear opinions. Maybe we should have killed 6-7. However, in our ramblings with me never actually seeing the place until that morning (aerial photo only) & inexperienced partner, I thought we did pretty well in un-ideal conditions. (I would have preferred to scout the place & come back at the right time, but I was on his time & had to hunt Sat morning conditions or miss an opportunity at the place all together)



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Well, at least the wind was nice for entry … The following photo is how I made the set. I’ve had my best luck with giving the coyote a chance to get “close” to downwind without letting him GET dw & stay in cover. I decided to take advantage of one of the radial fence lines that was grown up into a mini-thicket that allowed plenty of cover. This allowed the coyotes a somewhat comfortable place to come in with the wind still somewhat in his face. I set my shooter in a bushy cedar tree (red X) looking down the fence line that was about 20yards wide; made up of small trees & brush. The wind was very light breeze @ our 10:00 (in light blue, we’re facing south-east) & the fence line was linear about our 11:00. We put the foxpro (in yellow) in a sparsely covered fence line about 50 yards down (the particular fence line was more brushy than appears on photo). I then tuned completely to my shooters back (I believe he thought I was chit’n him getting to look at the larger area) to cover any hard chargers (mythical creature in the woods I hunt) that may come from the woods despite not having nosed the seen. Eventually the coyotes did all come up the fence line (into the wind as planned) and showed their self ( at the spotty dark blue) by edging from the thicket to get a better look straight at the caller. I doubbt it but perhaps they might have came out & circled in the open, but neither got the chance.

Moral of the story, we gave them a corridor to approach that kept them in their comfort zone (in the thick) without letting them be strait downwind. We didn’t make them cross any extreme opening that was near the caller, come strait with a tailwind, or jump any other hoops they didn’t want. We simply let the coyote do something that was natural to them.

Set
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And the hero photo. BTW- he was not a yearling dog

Jake_07_25_09.jpg
 
Coleridge - When an area has very low hunting pressure, and lots of virgin dogs, to call a couple in one field is not too hard, even in Massachusetts.

What you did right .... maybe by accident (I assume from your post) was to walk into the wind from where you parked, and I also assume you called the big field. AOK.

You called up a traveling coyote, missed and kept callin' Good. Another travelin' morning pair showed and you got one. I assume and hope you kept callin' another 15 minutes or so.

Great Morning!

To assume you would shoot more on that morning would be wishful thinking, as 3 off the first stand of the day is a big deal no matter where you hunt.

NOW .... as you hunt, kill, miss, and worry the coyotes at that spot, you will call less into the open, and things will get harder. This is why I advocate hunt early in the season, and cover tons of towns and miles .......... have 20 spots like this. You will kill lots of easy dogs UNTIL .... you and other coyotemen, bird hunters, deer hunters, blast away.

Now its time to HUNT coyotes, not just call and shoot the easy ones. This really seperates the Novice from the seasoned caller, as the experienced coyoteman will continue to get some kills, where the novice will stay with what worked when huntin was easy ............. and go coyote less.

You will have to mix it up now, and most likely have to hit the woods to suceed.

Night hunting is your best bet on pressured dogs, and makes things real easy.

Mix stand locations, and although not as important sounds.

If you insist on open field hunting a coyote decoy over a moving rabbit decoy may get you a shot at first light.

As for me, I kill the easy ones pronto ( early season ), then I'd take that fence row to that triangle cut out, and get a stand about 75 yards into the woods off the tip of that of the triangle ..... ( looks like someone is already parked there). I would sneak in about 45 minutes before first light, and start callin' when safety allowed. I'd call 45 minutes or so to get the travelin dogs.

Think big, as new callers focus on areas too small. Radio collared coyotes in Massachusetts are runnin' 11 miles AVERAGE per day. So after that first long morning stand......... run and gun baby, run and gun.

Might be too simplistic for some "experts", but its a simple tactic that works very well.

Again, hunt later in the week (read my above post), close areas to man 1st stands of the day, working more remote as the day wears on.






 
Let's stimulate a little more discussion...

sleddog,

I am assuming by "triangle cut" you mean the triangle shaped grove out of trees at about 2 o'clock on coleridge's picture. If so, which way would you face considering the wind direction the same as coleridge indicated? How would you sit, coleridge?

How would you modify this setup for night hunting, if at all?
 
Being that you had success on your stand their's really not much anyone can say to improve it.

but to be honest ,I feel someone could do alot of similar set-ups in my area with very poor results. Apparently early season yotes are alot easier to call in the northeast.As from what I've been told.(I wouldn't know . don't start calling until after christmas).
If I were to give this area a try I would wait until about half an hour after daylight to enter the area.than , being reasonably sure that any active coyotes would be out of the fields I would walk straight across the clearing with the wind in my face. I would pick an elevated spot about fifty or so yards into the tree line.The most important aspects would be having a clear shooting lane down wind to the field edge.This would give me a few things .It would allow me to cover my ground scent (where I walked in) and downwind in the same field of view. being fifty or so yards in the tree line should make any approaching predator feel more at ease traveling just inside the field edge to the set up. If everything worked right the yote would be shot before cutting my track or hitting my scent plume. Somewhere bwtween me and where I entered the woods

This is a very good post .looking forward to reading what others have to say.
 
A few things. The entry into the wind was not by accident. If the wind had been different that day we would have entered different. (We would still have had to park the same place as the land we had permission to hunt is landlocked & our only legal entry). Also we did not have permision to be in the big woods left of property line. But for discussion sake; ya'll can pretend...

Also, these were not virgin dogs. The farm had been called before (not sure how latley); not sure of the history but I know there had been no success as of late. They also get shot on sight from the property owner & hand. They had killed one young one & missed two others in the last month that I know.

Laslty, the dogs never came out completley into the open. Each dog only came to the edge (poking out their head) staying inside (there is a wovenwire fence if you look more closely.... they never cam on this side of it). We pulled him out for the pic. Also look behind him to see how thick it is in there. The aerial phot is very deciving (taken in the winter, lots of growth & weeds that are chest high now). The stand was set up to look into this fencline... not the field/pasture.

Keep it coming guys... I'm interested in others opinions/thoughts.
 
Quote: Apparently early season yotes are alot easier to call in the northeast.As from what I've been told.(I wouldn't know . don't start calling until after christmas).

Now you are getting the idea Swampwalker. Hunt deer later on in the year, or better yet, hunt deer when you get old like me ......... way easier than coyotes. After NY gun season is over, your coyotes are gettin' pretty thinned out. Shot at since the first kid goes squirrel hunting in September.

Real hard to be a coyote hunter when you spend too much time with a bow. I speak from experience. Although bowhunting has helped my Northeastern coyote hunting success a ton.

Quote:I am assuming by "triangle cut" you mean the triangle shaped grove out of trees at about 2 o'clock on coleridge's picture. If so, which way would you face considering the wind direction the same as coleridge indicated? How would you sit, coleridge?


Here is my " late season" approach to this spot, and obviously, this is a rough cut, and I would learn from my hunts here.

Day and night .......... good night spot for sure !!! When I call at night, I may stay awhile. Call a bit, get out the thermos, call a bit, etc. Like it for early morning/late afternoon as well. My approach was with morning in mind (before dawn), staying as out of sight from fields as possible. Slipping into my stand with a chance at dogs/bobcats on the field edge, and alot of room for coyotes to feel safe getting downwind, so they feel safe (treestand).

If I was on the ground, I'd get that Foxpro out about 50-75 yards in front of me, and watch the downwind.

Early season unpressured coyotes is great exactly as Coleridge hunted them. Even seasoned dogs seem to have forgoten some lessons from last year.

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Quote:Also, these were not virgin dogs. The farm had been called before (not sure how latley); not sure of the history but I know there had been no success as of late. They also get shot on sight from the property owner & hand. They had killed one young one & missed two others in the last month that I know.

My experience is this time of year, last years lessons have faded in the adult/teen dogs minds ......... by October, they will be on red alert around here
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This year I'll be giving early season a try.NY'S season opens up 0ct 1st.That'll give me untill the 15th (Bow season) to find out how easy theese early dogs are.

If I see one dog pop his/her head out into a field during daylight I'll be convinced.

Sleddogg, giving up deer for dogs is hardcore. I don't know if I'm there yet
 
Originally Posted By: swampwalker
Sleddogg, giving up deer for dogs is hardcore. I don't know if I'm there yet
Give it some time swampwalker, you're still young.
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Originally Posted By: sleddogg
Here is my " late season" approach to this spot, and obviously, this is a rough cut, and I would learn from my hunts here.

Day and night .......... good night spot for sure !!! When I call at night, I may stay awhile. Call a bit, get out the thermos, call a bit, etc. Like it for early morning/late afternoon as well. My approach was with morning in mind (before dawn), staying as out of sight from fields as possible. Slipping into my stand with a chance at dogs/bobcats on the field edge, and alot of room for coyotes to feel safe getting downwind, so they feel safe (treestand).

If I was on the ground, I'd get that Foxpro out about 50-75 yards in front of me, and watch the downwind.

Early season unpressured coyotes is great exactly as Coleridge hunted them. Even seasoned dogs seem to have forgoten some lessons from last year.

Good assessment, sleddog.
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We should hear more from you and coleridge on approaches for stands, wind factors, etc.
 
Originally Posted By: coleridge

And the hero photo. BTW- he was not a yearling dog

Jake_07_25_09.jpg



Coleridge,

That's a big hole in the underside of that dog. Where did you hit it??
 
Originally Posted By: 4949shooter
coleridge said:
Coleridge,

That's a big hole in the underside of that dog. Where did you hit it??

Haha... that's not me in the photo. That's my shooter. He did all the shooting that day. He had never killed one so I let him have all the fun.

He shot it with my sons .243; packing a hot laod of varget under a 75gr v-max. That combo is hard on them
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but we don't save hides either.

He actually came close to missing that dog too. He hit him low just infront of the left shouder & it exited as you see (he was also shooting downward a bit). The wound is streached a little with the legs pulling down. But that bullet usually does open them pretty bad though. BTW, the guy in the pic is right at 6'.
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