22 ARC

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22-250 53 varmaggedon 3789fps 10mph wind
 
BleedsBlue said:
24" white oak 1-12 twist h4895 powder
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I see, it seems like you’re running quite a hot rod wildcat load there having to use custom made brass, out of a very long barrel for an AR, and also using a bullet that is really quite exceptional in its class in terms of BC. Not quite a fair comparison to an off the shelf 22 ARC factory load. However, if you ever decide to run a shorter barrel like maybe because you choose to go suppressed(idk if you run a can or not), the 22 ARC may become a lot more attractive to you, with factory brass available and all. But I will say if you’re running hot rod handloads like that, you could probably do some magic with a 22 ARC and those new 62 ELD-VT’s, and those longer shots out to maybe 500+ may become a bit more realistic with a bullet designed for the task.
 
FlySlanger said:
I see, it seems like you’re running quite a hot rod wildcat load there having to use custom made brass, out of a very long barrel for an AR, and also using a bullet that is really quite exceptional in its class in terms of BC. Not quite a fair comparison to an off the shelf 22 ARC factory load. However, if you ever decide to run a shorter barrel like maybe because you choose to go suppressed(idk if you run a can or not), the 22 ARC may become a lot more attractive to you, with factory brass available and all. But I will say if you’re running hot rod handloads like that, you could probably do some magic with a 22 ARC and those new 62 ELD-VT’s, and those longer shots out to maybe 500+ may become a bit more realistic with a bullet designed for the task.
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It is a fair comparison (24" barrel vs 24" barrel) the 22arch has a higher in BC class bullet. This simply comes down to case capacity and thermal energy, the results with a shorter barrel will be similar (approximately 25fps loss for each inch of barrel reduction).

The only advantage of the 22 🌈 arch is brass availability and it's a shame and loss of potential because more case capacity could have been achieved by stretching the cartridge length rather than re-purposing the Grendel brass which has already been done, when developing a new cartridge it should outperform the cartridge that it is phasing out otherwise do not discontinue the production of the hagar brass that fills a niche such as coyote hunting.

Most likely I will never be interested in the 22 🌈 arch. 500+yard shots are unethical and impractical in a coyote hunting situation. I have made 500+yard shots with my current configuration but I know it was foolish.. merely a hail Mary attempt that was accidentally successful. Also I prefer hunting coyotes over shooting paper.

If the manufacturer of the new cartridge claims that it outperforms the 22-250 for coyote hunting then it should actually do such in an apples to apples comparison... not focus on impractical situations at 500+yd shots. That's not reality for those whom are using night vision/thermal that do not have time or equipment to calculate for the additional bullet drop on shots below 500yards which are 99% of all shots taken on coyotes at night.

The ballistics calculation proves that your ARC drops 3.9" more than the 22-250 with an inferior bullet in 300yards and the much higher BC only outperforms in windage by 0.3" (in a fast paced situation this is huge)

Here's the 300yard comparison
22 ARC 16" barrel .395 BC= 10.5" drop
22 ARC 24" barrel .395 BC= 8.9" drop
22 nosgar 24" barrel. 303 BC = 7.1" drop
22-250 22" barrel 303 BC = 6.6" drop
62gn ELD-VT at 3600fps = 6.9" drop

the extra powder capacity behind the 62gn ELD-VT be jaw dropping to those whom drank the ARC coolaid for coyote hunting. There's not replacement for displacement other than extreme pressures. (7mm backcountry). Put the 62 ELD-VT in front of the 22-250 or any cartridge with more case capacity and what I'm saying will make sense.. you'll be disappointed in the ARC.

Stretch the grendel .441" case to mag length with traditional 40-60gn coyote bullets (2.26" coal, brass length 1.775") and I'll be the first in line to purchase with tears of joy in my eye.

This is why I think the ARC is a lost opportunity, case capacity or pressure is the only way a new cartridge can outperform another cartridge in an apples to apples comparison.... period

I do not mean to bash on your gun, I think that information has been misconstrued to hype this new cartridge for coyote hunting and I didn't think it was wise to say it outperforms the 22-250. It's probably great at killing a piece of paper.

simply and figuratively speed kills....
 
I'm in the light fast bullet group, always have been. I've seen to many times what a light fast bullet does when it impacts a critter. usually isn't pretty. BC is fine if your a long range shooter. Most people get hung up on BC because they watch to many videos and the "Big Boys" tell them they need a heavy bullet for long range. Most of them don't even shoot long range. I don't think BC really matters until you get past 3-4-500yds. Gun manufacturers are pushing the heavy for caliber bullets so they built fast twist barrels. IMO that's just stupid. As rifle chairman at my club I see a lot of "Tacti-cool" rifles. We have a steel target that's bigger that a steering wheel in a truck at 300yds. I'd venture that 6 out of 10 can't hit it on their first shot. If they do hit it they think they are snipers. But they are tacti-cool. LOL
 
William Suter said:
I'm in the light fast bullet group, always have been. I've seen to many times what a light fast bullet does when it impacts a critter. usually isn't pretty. BC is fine if your a long range shooter. Most people get hung up on BC because they watch to many videos and the "Big Boys" tell them they need a heavy bullet for long range. Most of them don't even shoot long range. I don't think BC really matters until you get past 3-4-500yds. Gun manufacturers are pushing the heavy for caliber bullets so they built fast twist barrels. IMO that's just stupid. As rifle chairman at my club I see a lot of "Tacti-cool" rifles. We have a steel target that's bigger that a steering wheel in a truck at 300yds. I'd venture that 6 out of 10 can't hit it on their first shot. If they do hit it they think they are snipers. But they are tacti-cool. LOL
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After hunting with my 223 AR this past Saturday night, I’m inclined to get something alittle flatter shooting….debating between building a 204R or 22ARC upper…I already own a bolt 204 so have plenty of ammo. I’m leaning towards the speed vs high BC…will rarely be shooting past 300yds.
 
greengt88 said:
After hunting with my 223 AR this past Saturday night, I’m inclined to get something alittle flatter shooting….debating between building a 204R or 22ARC upper…I already own a bolt 204 so have plenty of ammo. I’m leaning towards the speed vs high BC…will rarely be shooting past 300yds.
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I think the 22 ARC with a 12" twist would be a sweet setup for the lighter/faster crowd.

My #1 night gun is a 22 DTI shooting 52 Bergers at 3550 out of a 12" twist, & flattens them with authority.
 
I haven’t shot a 22ARC, but I like the idea. From what I’ve heard it’s an “inherently” accurate round. While the 22creed seems to be the trend for new bolt action builds, I still think the ARC could be a very nicely balanced round for those running suppressed bolt guns in barrels under 20”. The 22Creed is a big case with a lot of powder to burn in an 18” barrel.

I never shoot over 300 anyway, so I can get away with less. I plan to see how all these new cartridges play out of the next 5 years and then make a call from there.
 
BleedsBlue said:
It is a fair comparison (24" barrel vs 24" barrel) the 22arch has a higher in BC class bullet. This simply comes down to case capacity and thermal energy, the results with a shorter barrel will be similar (approximately 25fps loss for each inch of barrel reduction).

The only advantage of the 22 🌈 arch is brass availability and it's a shame and loss of potential because more case capacity could have been achieved by stretching the cartridge length rather than re-purposing the Grendel brass which has already been done, when developing a new cartridge it should outperform the cartridge that it is phasing out otherwise do not discontinue the production of the hagar brass that fills a niche such as coyote hunting.

Most likely I will never be interested in the 22 🌈 arch. 500+yard shots are unethical and impractical in a coyote hunting situation. I have made 500+yard shots with my current configuration but I know it was foolish.. merely a hail Mary attempt that was accidentally successful. Also I prefer hunting coyotes over shooting paper.

If the manufacturer of the new cartridge claims that it outperforms the 22-250 for coyote hunting then it should actually do such in an apples to apples comparison... not focus on impractical situations at 500+yd shots. That's not reality for those whom are using night vision/thermal that do not have time or equipment to calculate for the additional bullet drop on shots below 500yards which are 99% of all shots taken on coyotes at night.

The ballistics calculation proves that your ARC drops 3.9" more than the 22-250 with an inferior bullet in 300yards and the much higher BC only outperforms in windage by 0.3" (in a fast paced situation this is huge)

Here's the 300yard comparison
22 ARC 16" barrel .395 BC= 10.5" drop
22 ARC 24" barrel .395 BC= 8.9" drop
22 nosgar 24" barrel. 303 BC = 7.1" drop
22-250 22" barrel 303 BC = 6.6" drop
62gn ELD-VT at 3600fps = 6.9" drop

the extra powder capacity behind the 62gn ELD-VT be jaw dropping to those whom drank the ARC coolaid for coyote hunting. There's not replacement for displacement other than extreme pressures. (7mm backcountry). Put the 62 ELD-VT in front of the 22-250 or any cartridge with more case capacity and what I'm saying will make sense.. you'll be disappointed in the ARC.

Stretch the grendel .441" case to mag length with traditional 40-60gn coyote bullets (2.26" coal, brass length 1.775") and I'll be the first in line to purchase with tears of joy in my eye.

This is why I think the ARC is a lost opportunity, case capacity or pressure is the only way a new cartridge can outperform another cartridge in an apples to apples comparison.... period

I do not mean to bash on your gun, I think that information has been misconstrued to hype this new cartridge for coyote hunting and I didn't think it was wise to say it outperforms the 22-250. It's probably great at killing a piece of paper.

simply and figuratively speed kills....
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When did the conversation become about night hunting? Pretty sure the $600 DNT NV scope I was looking at DOES have a rangefinder built in and puts holdovers on screen. For me, as a non-long range shooter who would go from a 223 to a 22 ARC to increase my chances of hitting a dog at 3-500, BC is what I need, cause I’m no professional wind caller. And at those long ranges, BC is everything. And again, you didn’t even acknowledge the fact that you keep talking about YOUR wildcat cartridge gun with YOUR hot rod load. Like I said, for me, 223 kills em fine, but shit gets a lot dicier past 200/250. Which is the ONLY reason I’d want the 22 ARC for coyote hunting. 22 Nosler is dead sorry to tell you cause it’s obsolete.
 
Ryanjac23 said:
I haven’t shot a 22ARC, but I like the idea. From what I’ve heard it’s an “inherently” accurate round. While the 22creed seems to be the trend for new bolt action builds, I still think the ARC could be a very nicely balanced round for those running suppressed bolt guns in barrels under 20”. The 22Creed is a big case with a lot of powder to burn in an 18” barrel.

I never shoot over 300 anyway, so I can get away with less. I plan to see how all these new cartridges play out of the next 5 years and then make a call from there.
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It is fantastically efficient from 16 to 20” and like I said, I’m shooting all of the Hornady factory stuff sub-moa about of my $175 16” ballistic advantage barrel
 
FlySlanger said:
It is fantastically efficient from 16 to 20” and like I said, I’m shooting all of the Hornady factory stuff sub-moa about of my $175 16” ballistic advantage barrel
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If you are satisfied thats good and I will not try to change your mind. I'm simply stating that it is not ballistically superior and if it were I would be on board.
 
Ive played with the 22 ARC all summer and I have most assuredly established SAAMI max specs
almost had a bad day ...I saw 3657 fps out of a Hornady 60 Gr Vmax ...at 30 Gr AA2230
Too HOT! jacket shredded and she blew apart at 150 feet ..

The cartridge is NOT as inherently accurate as the 6 ARC
and the Hornady 62 GR ELD VT that they established all their HOPE upon to compare it to
a 22 -250 are extremely finicky to find a load that groups ...that bullet throws fliers galore.

My 24" EABCO Barrels is a 1-7 and its on a nicely built AR platform...
is it all the cat's meow ? no not really ...at least when compared to my bolt guns
but....in a AR platform it certainly does open up a whole new plethora of possibilities
the lil 6.5 Grendel is indeed the brass that I bought and formed in 22 arc dies ..

It's fun and is worth the investment no doubt ...
I'd advise if you want speed get a 24" barrel ....after all it's all about trajectory and speed
who cares about a short lil gun ? we have tripods...

I won't lie my Tikka 223 AI with a 26" barrel will outperform it with less powder and is my favorite
BUT ...for a gas gun it does jump out in front of the 223 enough to justify the initial cost to run it .
Redding dies
Brass
Barrel and Bolt

Don't hesitate ...but do buy a brass catcher ...don't let that brass get lost !

 
By The way if you want speed AA2230 is certainly a top choice
meters like a charm , been using it for 25 years ....
In the 22 ARC and a 60 Gr Vmax go no higher than 28.7 Grs
OAL to be established by your chamber ...I try to stay back .020"
You won't be disappointed ....The 60 Gr Flat Base bullets are just awesome
but they will come apart in a 7 twist easier than you think ....

ease up to 28.7 Grs slowly
 
That is a completely subjective statement, as you’re overlooking energy on target at range, drop at extended distances, and wind drift. So unless you’re beating in every single ballistic criterion, it’s just a matter of preference.
 
FlySlanger said:
That is a completely subjective statement, as you’re overlooking energy on target at range, drop at extended distances, and wind drift. So unless you’re beating in every single ballistic criterion, it’s just a matter of preference.
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Subjective my ass ...
It launches the same projectile faster with less powder ...
That beats it ....end of story ...
 
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