Shotshell components???
- Thread starter Rock Knocker
- Start date
Rock Knocker
Well-known member
BP12 wads did much better than MG42. They kept pressures much lower with Longshot also. Firing 660gr of #T got me 8 hits on a paper plate at 30 yards.
derbyacresbob
Well-known member
By shooting Tungsten shot in 12g/cc, 15g/cc and TSS 18g/cc in BPI TPS wads you probable won't need to try to make your patterns any tighter than a Mod or Imp/mod choke.
When I first had to start shooting Lead Free shot at coyotes I started shooting Rem Wingmaster HD 3" 1-1/2 oz BB loads. It shocked me how the Rem HD BB loads with 25 less pellets per shell were killing coyotes more efficiently and at longer ranges than the factory 3" Federal copper coated lead BB loads with 1-7/8 oz of shot.
Christmas2005_0613 by https://www.flickr.com/photos/156463377@N08/, on Flickr
The above pattern picture was shot at 40 yards with a factory Federal 3" 1-7/8 oz load of copper coated lead BB shot with 98 pellets per shell. The Dead Coyote choke I was shooting put 16 lead BB pellets in a 12" circle.
IMG_0314 by https://www.flickr.com/photos/156463377@N08/, on Flickr
This pattern was shot with a factory 3" 1-1/2 oz Rem Wingmaster HD BB load that had 73 pellets per shell and it was shot with the same Dead Coyote choke.
The 12g/cc HD BB load with 25 less pellets per shell put 32 pellets in the 12" circle. So the 73 pellet 12g/cc BB load had 25.5% less pellets per shell but they put 100% more pellets into the 12" circle at 40 yards away.
Look below at the increase in penetration distance comparing 1300 fps, 12g/cc BB shot to 1300 fps lead BB shot. The factory 3" 1-7/8 oz, copper coated BB lead loads were closer to 1200 fps.
1300 fps lead BB shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 46.1 yards.
1300 fps 12g/cc BB shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 62.4 yards.
The much harder Tungsten shot types breaks coyote bones way more often than the much softer lead shot.
When I first had to start shooting Lead Free shot at coyotes I started shooting Rem Wingmaster HD 3" 1-1/2 oz BB loads. It shocked me how the Rem HD BB loads with 25 less pellets per shell were killing coyotes more efficiently and at longer ranges than the factory 3" Federal copper coated lead BB loads with 1-7/8 oz of shot.
Christmas2005_0613 by https://www.flickr.com/photos/156463377@N08/, on FlickrThe above pattern picture was shot at 40 yards with a factory Federal 3" 1-7/8 oz load of copper coated lead BB shot with 98 pellets per shell. The Dead Coyote choke I was shooting put 16 lead BB pellets in a 12" circle.
IMG_0314 by https://www.flickr.com/photos/156463377@N08/, on FlickrThis pattern was shot with a factory 3" 1-1/2 oz Rem Wingmaster HD BB load that had 73 pellets per shell and it was shot with the same Dead Coyote choke.
The 12g/cc HD BB load with 25 less pellets per shell put 32 pellets in the 12" circle. So the 73 pellet 12g/cc BB load had 25.5% less pellets per shell but they put 100% more pellets into the 12" circle at 40 yards away.
Look below at the increase in penetration distance comparing 1300 fps, 12g/cc BB shot to 1300 fps lead BB shot. The factory 3" 1-7/8 oz, copper coated BB lead loads were closer to 1200 fps.
1300 fps lead BB shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 46.1 yards.
1300 fps 12g/cc BB shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 62.4 yards.
The much harder Tungsten shot types breaks coyote bones way more often than the much softer lead shot.
Rock Knocker
Well-known member
Good to know. So far I have shot #5, #T and .310 "buck" in MG42, .310 was ok but the other two were all over. I tried #T in the BP12 with a single BPGS and it was better.
I need to get the more recent loading manuals for tungsten shot data and more BP12 data, hopefully some CSD data also. Next time i am getting stuff i will get some TPS wads, maybe some CLBC or another too. I will start collecting more shot. I wanted to load and shoot lead before TSS.
Ive got wads to trade if anyone wants MG42, BP12 or CSD114.
A good thick lube in the roll crimper sure helped out. I tried a drop of thin lube before but some thicker jelly grease did the trick.
I need to get the more recent loading manuals for tungsten shot data and more BP12 data, hopefully some CSD data also. Next time i am getting stuff i will get some TPS wads, maybe some CLBC or another too. I will start collecting more shot. I wanted to load and shoot lead before TSS.
Ive got wads to trade if anyone wants MG42, BP12 or CSD114.
A good thick lube in the roll crimper sure helped out. I tried a drop of thin lube before but some thicker jelly grease did the trick.
Last edited:
Rock Knocker
Well-known member
Chokes sure make a difference, I tried my other shotgun with a full choke and got 6x the hits on a paper plate. Thats encouraging for getting this new gun tapped for chokes.
I was curious if there are ways to improve the shot Ive got. Ive seen guys cast their own and water drop them to increase hardness, can I take my store bought shot and heat it to less than melting and then drop them in -20f isopropyl or mineral oil, would that make them even harder? Bubba Rountree Outdoors powder coats his shot, I could powder coat the store bought shot, also tumbled polished shot. Or if even a simple dry lube like graphite on the shot could improve patterns some?
Ive got a wood stove for heat, on the coldest days of the year I could melt a pile of wheel weights and drop them in some -20f used oil if thats going to be better than what I can buy?
I was curious if there are ways to improve the shot Ive got. Ive seen guys cast their own and water drop them to increase hardness, can I take my store bought shot and heat it to less than melting and then drop them in -20f isopropyl or mineral oil, would that make them even harder? Bubba Rountree Outdoors powder coats his shot, I could powder coat the store bought shot, also tumbled polished shot. Or if even a simple dry lube like graphite on the shot could improve patterns some?
Ive got a wood stove for heat, on the coldest days of the year I could melt a pile of wheel weights and drop them in some -20f used oil if thats going to be better than what I can buy?
Rock Knocker
Well-known member
My guns love 3" load with CSD wads with Lil'Gun powder and 2oz #T or #F. That made a huge difference, even the 20" cylinder barrel would kill a coyote at 55 yards. The 26" barrel with a modified choke put 18 #T on a paper plate at 40 yards.
Its super messy powder, a lot of powder left in the barrel, im not sure how full of a burn im getting. I dont have a chrono for velocities but the hulls and wads look like they hit full pressure and they feel like shooting the 3" Federal 4Buck, monster fireballs from both also.
I also got some 1/4" 20ga cork wads, its surprising how much of a change those make, I cut them to 1/8" and added it to the 2 3/4", Longshot, BP12 load and it tamed it down a good bit.
Its super messy powder, a lot of powder left in the barrel, im not sure how full of a burn im getting. I dont have a chrono for velocities but the hulls and wads look like they hit full pressure and they feel like shooting the 3" Federal 4Buck, monster fireballs from both also.
I also got some 1/4" 20ga cork wads, its surprising how much of a change those make, I cut them to 1/8" and added it to the 2 3/4", Longshot, BP12 load and it tamed it down a good bit.
Last edited:
Rock Knocker
Well-known member
I started experimenting with the liquid buffers. Instead of SMASH Plastic like LongBeard XR im trying the sugar glass recipe. From cylinder bore these are the best patterns ive seen with Longshot and 1 3/8-1 5/8oz loads. I was shooting CTPS-Max trimmed down to hold 1/4" 20ga cork and 600gr shot. Today Im trying the CSD114 trimmed with 1/4" 20ga cork.
Trying to make and load lead candy is a mess, its a mess in the kitchen though, Lil'Gun patterns great also but leaves a mess in the gun. Ive got mylar and teflon wraps im going to experiment with to keep the caramel from sticking to the wads and hopefully hold the candy package together a bit further down range. But it works, a lead and caramel hard puck will shatter and come apart in the air and hold tight patterns, no weird chunks left behind or strange holes punched in the paper. The SMASH Plastic epoxy is $60 for 2lbs, that would fill a lot shells and not be as much of a hot sticky mess as lead and liquid sugar. I cut open a Winchester LongBeard XR and sure enough, the whole thing is glued together, I had to cut and pry the overshot card off, the wad was glued to the hull, all the #5 is in a clear hard resin I can pick up, toss around or carry in my pockets.
Ive also got a double cup wad like the Flight Control figured out. I cut the cushion section off two CTPSmax and used a small soldering iron to melt them together, this plastic welds well and they are stuck. I just need a small bandsaw or jigsaw to cut the wads so I can remove more plastic from the bottom of the short powder cup. I need a better way to align the two wads before welding also, I placed them end to end in a plastic section of 12ga hull but that wasnt firm or steady enough for good alignment, but once the wads are stuck, trimmed and the pedals pulled apart by hand, they look just like Flight Control wads. I havent shot those yet, they need a little more work.
Trying to make and load lead candy is a mess, its a mess in the kitchen though, Lil'Gun patterns great also but leaves a mess in the gun. Ive got mylar and teflon wraps im going to experiment with to keep the caramel from sticking to the wads and hopefully hold the candy package together a bit further down range. But it works, a lead and caramel hard puck will shatter and come apart in the air and hold tight patterns, no weird chunks left behind or strange holes punched in the paper. The SMASH Plastic epoxy is $60 for 2lbs, that would fill a lot shells and not be as much of a hot sticky mess as lead and liquid sugar. I cut open a Winchester LongBeard XR and sure enough, the whole thing is glued together, I had to cut and pry the overshot card off, the wad was glued to the hull, all the #5 is in a clear hard resin I can pick up, toss around or carry in my pockets.
Ive also got a double cup wad like the Flight Control figured out. I cut the cushion section off two CTPSmax and used a small soldering iron to melt them together, this plastic welds well and they are stuck. I just need a small bandsaw or jigsaw to cut the wads so I can remove more plastic from the bottom of the short powder cup. I need a better way to align the two wads before welding also, I placed them end to end in a plastic section of 12ga hull but that wasnt firm or steady enough for good alignment, but once the wads are stuck, trimmed and the pedals pulled apart by hand, they look just like Flight Control wads. I havent shot those yet, they need a little more work.
Last edited: