Public schoolers: How's that indoctrination workin' out?
- Thread starter sweatybetty
- Start date
redeyeddawg
New member
Originally Posted By: jeffoTextbooks are a tool. Teaching is an art.
Most "art" drains the taxpayers with little in return.
Most "art" drains the taxpayers with little in return.
Originally Posted By: jeffoOriginally Posted By: sweatybettyOriginally Posted By: jeffo I simply don't think most parents could do a good job of it, like they think they could. There's more to it than most folks realize.
such as?
Such as the time you need to put in. Also, you need to know stuff. Most people could probably teach elementary-aged kids, but beyond that...
If I learned what the public school taught......it would follow I already know what is needed to be taught cause I already learned it.
such as?
Such as the time you need to put in. Also, you need to know stuff. Most people could probably teach elementary-aged kids, but beyond that...
If I learned what the public school taught......it would follow I already know what is needed to be taught cause I already learned it.
Originally Posted By: HyperwrxIn all honesty, individuals like this member above come into these types or discussions with minimal tools and resources to contribute to a healthy debate. It's not entirely his fault as his upbringing, both in school and in his home, play a roll in his inability to converse on par with his peers in this thread but we all know that genetics laid the groundwork. From the error of not using a comma between the day of the month and the year, to creating a run-on sentence in his signature, to his constant poor sentence structure and failure to consistently use capital letters, he's a teacher's and parent's nightmare. "I was done wrong by pubic edjumacation" grew old 14 posts ago but can we really expect more from him? I almost have to just ignore his posts throughout this forum as beyond his jaded opinion on the subject he is about as worthless as [beeep] on a chicken.
Quote:Again where are the stats on that? Also the same home school kids who do well at home, would do well in a public education system. it really boils down to how much value a family puts on education. Can most home school parents teach trig? Calculus? AP Bio? I also know not all teachers can teach those high end subjects, but every school should have 1 or 2.
That's the truth. It makes me chuckle when parents pull their children out of public school in elementary. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that come about 7th-9th grade those same parents will sheepishly re-register their child back up when they realize they do not have the skill set to teach junior high curriculum- math, science, even social studies. What many do not understand is its called Home School but many times the parents do not teach the kids. The parents buy into an online program or a study kit or something. It then becomes, "get up and open the books (turn on the computer) you got and teach yourself'. It's a education of convenience. The lazy parent doesn't need to get up at 7am to take the kid to school. They don't need to volunteer in their daughter's classroom. No parent teacher conferences ever again. It's fantastic. Just find an excuse of something going on in the school, even something so far removed from the child as 'the government is meddling too much in education', and you now have your rational to pull your child from the structure of school.
Thank goodness the state is now holding these lazy parents accountable for the education their kids are receiving. Ideally they should assess the home-school child's knowledge once a year and if the child is not up to snuff, the parent loses their job as a pseudo-educator and the kid by law gets pulled back in public school again. A parent can be taken to court if they allow their child to be truant from school. Keeping your kid home and failing to home school him is on par with allowing him to be truant.
Let's spread the accountability around for everyone involved with educating children. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
What would this accomplish?? Really?
Sir. I am unsure who predecided what every kid needs and when they need it. It is as if they believe that learning ceases after graduation. That there is no recourse if you are a bit older and may need to learn trig...I have never needed it but if I did there is not a statue of limitations that it must be learned by 21 years old or else.
Our country has manditory language...it is not taught in a way that anyone speaks french upon graduation even for those who have a inclination for languages. It is cruel and unusual punishment for a young teen boy that can only think of motorcycles. Why must all kids suffer through it???
When you berate those who would teach their own children it is a slight towards yourself for if these parents had actualy been taught then it would not be a problem to teach. By your own admission the public school has failed.
Quote:Again where are the stats on that? Also the same home school kids who do well at home, would do well in a public education system. it really boils down to how much value a family puts on education. Can most home school parents teach trig? Calculus? AP Bio? I also know not all teachers can teach those high end subjects, but every school should have 1 or 2.
That's the truth. It makes me chuckle when parents pull their children out of public school in elementary. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that come about 7th-9th grade those same parents will sheepishly re-register their child back up when they realize they do not have the skill set to teach junior high curriculum- math, science, even social studies. What many do not understand is its called Home School but many times the parents do not teach the kids. The parents buy into an online program or a study kit or something. It then becomes, "get up and open the books (turn on the computer) you got and teach yourself'. It's a education of convenience. The lazy parent doesn't need to get up at 7am to take the kid to school. They don't need to volunteer in their daughter's classroom. No parent teacher conferences ever again. It's fantastic. Just find an excuse of something going on in the school, even something so far removed from the child as 'the government is meddling too much in education', and you now have your rational to pull your child from the structure of school.
Thank goodness the state is now holding these lazy parents accountable for the education their kids are receiving. Ideally they should assess the home-school child's knowledge once a year and if the child is not up to snuff, the parent loses their job as a pseudo-educator and the kid by law gets pulled back in public school again. A parent can be taken to court if they allow their child to be truant from school. Keeping your kid home and failing to home school him is on par with allowing him to be truant.
Let's spread the accountability around for everyone involved with educating children. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
What would this accomplish?? Really?
Sir. I am unsure who predecided what every kid needs and when they need it. It is as if they believe that learning ceases after graduation. That there is no recourse if you are a bit older and may need to learn trig...I have never needed it but if I did there is not a statue of limitations that it must be learned by 21 years old or else.
Our country has manditory language...it is not taught in a way that anyone speaks french upon graduation even for those who have a inclination for languages. It is cruel and unusual punishment for a young teen boy that can only think of motorcycles. Why must all kids suffer through it???
When you berate those who would teach their own children it is a slight towards yourself for if these parents had actualy been taught then it would not be a problem to teach. By your own admission the public school has failed.
Hyperwrx
New member
I have a tough time understanding what you are trying to get across.
Parents who home school their children are often ill-equipped to perform the task once their children are beyond 7th grade.
Because few parents can teach 7 subjects they subscribe to some online teaching program or school which does a half-[beeep] job. Many times the reason a parent pulls their child fro a pubic school is because they do not like the accountability a public school requires of a parent. Phone calls home when a student is absent, immunization requirements, and mandatory events for parents are just a few reasons to pull little Johnny from school.
Add to that the lack of structured non-academic programs such as music, PE, art, organized sports and the home schooled child is getting the short end of the stick.
Now nmleon will pipe in with a study showing that a head of lettuce can teach a 10th grader trig as well as a human can and we should believe it.
Parents who home school their children are often ill-equipped to perform the task once their children are beyond 7th grade.
Because few parents can teach 7 subjects they subscribe to some online teaching program or school which does a half-[beeep] job. Many times the reason a parent pulls their child fro a pubic school is because they do not like the accountability a public school requires of a parent. Phone calls home when a student is absent, immunization requirements, and mandatory events for parents are just a few reasons to pull little Johnny from school.
Add to that the lack of structured non-academic programs such as music, PE, art, organized sports and the home schooled child is getting the short end of the stick.
Now nmleon will pipe in with a study showing that a head of lettuce can teach a 10th grader trig as well as a human can and we should believe it.
mleon,
You crack me up! Citing a list of courses as evidence that teaching can be learned from textbooks is absurd. Once again, IT IS IN THE APPLICATION! There are an infinte number of variables in the course of a class/ day/ semester etc. that would be impossible to learn from any textbook or course of study. Even the highly specialized skill jobs that you hold in such high regard have textbooks and required coursework.
Mike
You crack me up! Citing a list of courses as evidence that teaching can be learned from textbooks is absurd. Once again, IT IS IN THE APPLICATION! There are an infinte number of variables in the course of a class/ day/ semester etc. that would be impossible to learn from any textbook or course of study. Even the highly specialized skill jobs that you hold in such high regard have textbooks and required coursework.
Mike
redeyeddawg
New member
Originally Posted By: Hyperwrx Many times the reason a parent pulls their child fro a pubic school is because they do not like the accountability a public school requires of a parent. Phone calls home when a student is absent, immunization requirements, and mandatory events for parents are just a few reasons to pull little Johnny from school.
Add to that the lack of structured non-academic programs such as music, PE, art, organized sports and the home schooled child is getting the short end of the stick.
You piss and moan about generalizations being made about government schools but you'll make the same accusations against homeschooling. I've seen little or no "accountability" being required by the schools of parents here. The attitude of the school districts is more like "We know best, shut up and let us take care of them." My homeschooled kids have structured music, PE, art and organized sports, all past 7th grade. What they haven't been subjected to is how to place a condom on a cucumber, the intracacies of anal sex, the slavish worship of government through the religion of secular humanism, being excluded from field trips because of skin color, observance of queer days, celebrating multiculturalism, bullying, gangbanging, baggy trousers, sideways hats, hip hop, dope, etc., ad nauseum. The bottom line? YOUR average student will end up in prison, hanging drywall, and voting Democrat. My average student will be a well adjusted, productive, respectful, taxpaying and God fearing citizen and more than likely employing students like yours, if they can find a few that want to work. The graduates of private and home schools are the last, best hope for the future of our country. You may be doing a fine job as an individual in trying to shape the lives of your students, but the system of government control they are in dooms the majority to failure. You are too wrapped up in yourself to realize this and will defend the government system of education even as the whole mess goes down in flames around you.
Add to that the lack of structured non-academic programs such as music, PE, art, organized sports and the home schooled child is getting the short end of the stick.
You piss and moan about generalizations being made about government schools but you'll make the same accusations against homeschooling. I've seen little or no "accountability" being required by the schools of parents here. The attitude of the school districts is more like "We know best, shut up and let us take care of them." My homeschooled kids have structured music, PE, art and organized sports, all past 7th grade. What they haven't been subjected to is how to place a condom on a cucumber, the intracacies of anal sex, the slavish worship of government through the religion of secular humanism, being excluded from field trips because of skin color, observance of queer days, celebrating multiculturalism, bullying, gangbanging, baggy trousers, sideways hats, hip hop, dope, etc., ad nauseum. The bottom line? YOUR average student will end up in prison, hanging drywall, and voting Democrat. My average student will be a well adjusted, productive, respectful, taxpaying and God fearing citizen and more than likely employing students like yours, if they can find a few that want to work. The graduates of private and home schools are the last, best hope for the future of our country. You may be doing a fine job as an individual in trying to shape the lives of your students, but the system of government control they are in dooms the majority to failure. You are too wrapped up in yourself to realize this and will defend the government system of education even as the whole mess goes down in flames around you.
TNcrittergitter
New member
Unfortunately, most of us live in our own little bubble, and have a hard time seeing past that bubble.
In my area, those in "home" school are more about home, with very little emphasis on school. The private schools are the dumping ground for the public school students who get kicked out, and the curriculum from most of these schools is several grade levels behind the public school.
That is simply the culture of the area I live in. Whether I like it or not, that influences my thoughts and beliefs about private and home schooling. Even though I know it is not the norm everywhere, it is difficult to remove those images from my opinions and thoughts.
I have spent time with many folk from different areas where the public schools are the dumping ground and the private schools have a much higher standard than any public school does. The home schools are just that - schools at home with extremely concerned, extremely qualified, and extremely zealous parents whose main goal is the transfer of life to their children.
The bubble we live in tends to greatly influence our view of the outside world, whether it be good or bad, right or wrong. We see from our bubble and our vision is typically clouded by that bubble.
As far as educational policy goes...Educational policy whether it be national, state, or local is simply that - a policy. It is terribly hard to turn a policy into a practice.
In my area, those in "home" school are more about home, with very little emphasis on school. The private schools are the dumping ground for the public school students who get kicked out, and the curriculum from most of these schools is several grade levels behind the public school.
That is simply the culture of the area I live in. Whether I like it or not, that influences my thoughts and beliefs about private and home schooling. Even though I know it is not the norm everywhere, it is difficult to remove those images from my opinions and thoughts.
I have spent time with many folk from different areas where the public schools are the dumping ground and the private schools have a much higher standard than any public school does. The home schools are just that - schools at home with extremely concerned, extremely qualified, and extremely zealous parents whose main goal is the transfer of life to their children.
The bubble we live in tends to greatly influence our view of the outside world, whether it be good or bad, right or wrong. We see from our bubble and our vision is typically clouded by that bubble.
As far as educational policy goes...Educational policy whether it be national, state, or local is simply that - a policy. It is terribly hard to turn a policy into a practice.
ExpertMarksman
New member
It's probably a very good thing that we have the varieties of educational opportunities so we don't have to go with the 'one size fits all' approach. Since young people progress and develop at such different paces, it's more likely that they can find out what they are good @ and proceed in that direction in whatever school works for them. Kind of a trial and error process.
Learning to get along with others probably learned in all out schools but not in exactly a formal form but just OJT.
Hope all types of schools get better and better as I think I read somewhere that the ability to read is the most important factor that keeps people from going to our over full penitentiaries. Wonder way merely being literate tracks so closely with not going to prison?
Good hunting!
Learning to get along with others probably learned in all out schools but not in exactly a formal form but just OJT.
Hope all types of schools get better and better as I think I read somewhere that the ability to read is the most important factor that keeps people from going to our over full penitentiaries. Wonder way merely being literate tracks so closely with not going to prison?
Good hunting!
redeyeddawg
New member
Originally Posted By: ExpertMarksmanIt's probably a very good thing that we have the varieties of educational opportunities so we don't have to go with the 'one size fits all' approach.
Exactly. That's why the feds should stay out of education all together. They have no Constitutional authority to nationalize it. It should be left up to LOCAL school districts. (not even the states) That's where parental influence/participation can really make a difference. Naturally, the NEA and state teacher's unions are vehemently against this as it erodes their power. In their sick, twisted view, the minds and bodies of children are theirs to shape and control and the parents are merely breeding stock for the next generation of young socialists.
Exactly. That's why the feds should stay out of education all together. They have no Constitutional authority to nationalize it. It should be left up to LOCAL school districts. (not even the states) That's where parental influence/participation can really make a difference. Naturally, the NEA and state teacher's unions are vehemently against this as it erodes their power. In their sick, twisted view, the minds and bodies of children are theirs to shape and control and the parents are merely breeding stock for the next generation of young socialists.
Hyperwrx
New member
I am not against parents having the control over their child's education but the concept of it seem unpractical in practice. How on Earth could you possibly get 50,000 parents in my town to to come to a consensus on the curriculum that their 6th grader would be required to learn?
It would divide up the community to produce 45 different schools- 1 school that taught history and culture of Mexican Americans, 1 that allowed the special needs kids, 1 that taught conservative principles, 1 that focused on fire arts, 1 that supported the liberal ways of thinking, 1 for the Catholics, 1 for the Mormons, 1 for the nondenominational Christians.....
I honestly do not see how it would ever work.
Now we're back to each parent home schooling their own kids and the problem that beyond 7th grade very few have the background to effectively teach the curriculum. You can do 12th grade physics and calc?
Just because you find some high school in Boston teaching explicit sex ed to their students doesn't mean all public schools agree and do the same.
Public schooling might not be the perfect solution to educating kids but private schooling is impractical for the vast majority of Americans (we all pay taxes whether we like it or not, we don't and can't all pay $12,000/year for private school tuition), charter schools are hit and miss, and home schooling beyond 6th grade is a recipe for disaster.
If you have a better solution- let's hear it. Be specific and don't just shout out stupid refrains. Tell me how curriculum would be developed and decided upon, who would teach these kids and the pay structure you would use to convince people to teach, the checks and balances to ridding yourself of poor teachers yet keeping the ones who are good, and how you plan on paying for all this?
I'm all ears. I think you'll find the accumulation of details you need to fabricate a perfect learning environment you envision is just about impossible.
It would divide up the community to produce 45 different schools- 1 school that taught history and culture of Mexican Americans, 1 that allowed the special needs kids, 1 that taught conservative principles, 1 that focused on fire arts, 1 that supported the liberal ways of thinking, 1 for the Catholics, 1 for the Mormons, 1 for the nondenominational Christians.....
I honestly do not see how it would ever work.
Now we're back to each parent home schooling their own kids and the problem that beyond 7th grade very few have the background to effectively teach the curriculum. You can do 12th grade physics and calc?
Just because you find some high school in Boston teaching explicit sex ed to their students doesn't mean all public schools agree and do the same.
Public schooling might not be the perfect solution to educating kids but private schooling is impractical for the vast majority of Americans (we all pay taxes whether we like it or not, we don't and can't all pay $12,000/year for private school tuition), charter schools are hit and miss, and home schooling beyond 6th grade is a recipe for disaster.
If you have a better solution- let's hear it. Be specific and don't just shout out stupid refrains. Tell me how curriculum would be developed and decided upon, who would teach these kids and the pay structure you would use to convince people to teach, the checks and balances to ridding yourself of poor teachers yet keeping the ones who are good, and how you plan on paying for all this?
I'm all ears. I think you'll find the accumulation of details you need to fabricate a perfect learning environment you envision is just about impossible.
red,
You make some interesting points. Some of your views are a bit...um...extreme but interesting none the less. I agree with you to an extent, about certain groups staying out of the educational system. I'm not so sure that putting it in the hands of parents is the best measure though. Many problems that we face today in education are the negative result of parents. I pose this question: Would we all be better off if we put education solely in the hands of educators?????? (notice I didn't say unions, gvt. etc.)
Mike
You make some interesting points. Some of your views are a bit...um...extreme but interesting none the less. I agree with you to an extent, about certain groups staying out of the educational system. I'm not so sure that putting it in the hands of parents is the best measure though. Many problems that we face today in education are the negative result of parents. I pose this question: Would we all be better off if we put education solely in the hands of educators?????? (notice I didn't say unions, gvt. etc.)
Mike
Originally Posted By: Hyperwrx
Public schooling might not be the perfect solution to educating kids but private schooling is impractical for the vast majority of Americans (we all pay taxes whether we like it or not, we don't and can't all pay $12,000/year for private school tuition), charter schools are hit and miss, and home schooling beyond 6th grade is a recipe for disaster.
Why is it a recipe for disaster? very few individuals will qualify for MIT or work for NASA. What disaster to modern society are you avoiding by not teaching trig or bio or physics?
Of course you will not be able to step out of this box. You are being honest but you are honestly wrong.
I eagerly await your response to what disaster you are averting.
Public schooling might not be the perfect solution to educating kids but private schooling is impractical for the vast majority of Americans (we all pay taxes whether we like it or not, we don't and can't all pay $12,000/year for private school tuition), charter schools are hit and miss, and home schooling beyond 6th grade is a recipe for disaster.
Why is it a recipe for disaster? very few individuals will qualify for MIT or work for NASA. What disaster to modern society are you avoiding by not teaching trig or bio or physics?
Of course you will not be able to step out of this box. You are being honest but you are honestly wrong.
I eagerly await your response to what disaster you are averting.
jumprightinit
New member
Originally Posted By: mjiorlered,
You make some interesting points. Some of your views are a bit...um...extreme but interesting none the less. I agree with you to an extent, about certain groups staying out of the educational system. I'm not so sure that putting it in the hands of parents is the best measure though. Many problems that we face today in education are the negative result of parents. I pose this question: Would we all be better off if we put education solely in the hands of educators?????? (notice I didn't say unions, gvt. etc.)
Mike
Probably, with the educators being hired and fired by local school boards that are elected to serve in those positions.
You make some interesting points. Some of your views are a bit...um...extreme but interesting none the less. I agree with you to an extent, about certain groups staying out of the educational system. I'm not so sure that putting it in the hands of parents is the best measure though. Many problems that we face today in education are the negative result of parents. I pose this question: Would we all be better off if we put education solely in the hands of educators?????? (notice I didn't say unions, gvt. etc.)
Mike
Probably, with the educators being hired and fired by local school boards that are elected to serve in those positions.
Originally Posted By: jumprightinitOriginally Posted By: mjiorlered,
You make some interesting points. Some of your views are a bit...um...extreme but interesting none the less. I agree with you to an extent, about certain groups staying out of the educational system. I'm not so sure that putting it in the hands of parents is the best measure though. Many problems that we face today in education are the negative result of parents. I pose this question: Would we all be better off if we put education solely in the hands of educators?????? (notice I didn't say unions, gvt. etc.)
Mike
Probably, with the educators being hired and fired by local school boards that are elected to serve in those positions.
Ok, but are elected school boards Educators? As a taxpayer, I like the idea of having some oversight of the spending, but as a teacher, I've seen some serious problems of school boards with personal agendas, and micromanagement.
For comparison: do engineering firms get told how to build things by kindergarten teachers?
Mike
You make some interesting points. Some of your views are a bit...um...extreme but interesting none the less. I agree with you to an extent, about certain groups staying out of the educational system. I'm not so sure that putting it in the hands of parents is the best measure though. Many problems that we face today in education are the negative result of parents. I pose this question: Would we all be better off if we put education solely in the hands of educators?????? (notice I didn't say unions, gvt. etc.)
Mike
Probably, with the educators being hired and fired by local school boards that are elected to serve in those positions.
Ok, but are elected school boards Educators? As a taxpayer, I like the idea of having some oversight of the spending, but as a teacher, I've seen some serious problems of school boards with personal agendas, and micromanagement.
For comparison: do engineering firms get told how to build things by kindergarten teachers?
Mike
Hyperwrx
New member
The disaster of not being able to suitably teach kids the curriculum needed. Using the word disaster was an exaggeration but you get my picture.
Show me the parent who can suitably teach all the subjects a high school provides to give a student a well rounded education. I know I can't. Junior high and high school teachers specialize in their subject matter to be able to teach it (at least in AZ that's how it is). Few parents have a good enough knowledge to teach high school calculus, advanced Spanish literature, and chemistry like they'd need to to educated their child equivalent to what a high school faculty can.
Add to that the inability of a parent to provide to resources the school system provides by you just paying your taxes. Try teaching Chemistry with what you can scrounge up in your garage or kitchen. Auto mechanics can't be taught effectively without engine hoists, hydraulic lifts, and advanced computer diagnostic tools they use in today industry. Tough to learn to play in the orchestra with just your daughter playing her violin by herself in her room. In junior high and high school PE they teach archery, golf, lacrosse, swimming, and a myriad of other sports activities that require special gear to play. Your average home schooler misses out on this.
As mentioned by another members what often happens with home school situations is the parent teaches what they decide is important. The decide for themselves what part of the state curriculum is useful and what (in their limited years of living) is worthwhile. Calculus? I never used anything beyond addition subtraction multiplication and division so that's all my son is going to learn dad-gum-it. Hence the state should oversee the education the parent is administering to see if its up to par. There has to be accountability at a basic level at least. Should a parent be able to teach a student whatever they want and call it an education? Would that be fair to the son or daughter? Sure dad thinks trig is a waste so when I finished 12th grade and took the college placement test I scored 30% because he decided for me that calc, trig, geometry and stats were a waste for him in his job as a farmer.
If you don't have hopes of your son/daughter going to college them sure the limited education you give your son/daughter from 7th to 12th grade might be OK.
Show me the parent who can suitably teach all the subjects a high school provides to give a student a well rounded education. I know I can't. Junior high and high school teachers specialize in their subject matter to be able to teach it (at least in AZ that's how it is). Few parents have a good enough knowledge to teach high school calculus, advanced Spanish literature, and chemistry like they'd need to to educated their child equivalent to what a high school faculty can.
Add to that the inability of a parent to provide to resources the school system provides by you just paying your taxes. Try teaching Chemistry with what you can scrounge up in your garage or kitchen. Auto mechanics can't be taught effectively without engine hoists, hydraulic lifts, and advanced computer diagnostic tools they use in today industry. Tough to learn to play in the orchestra with just your daughter playing her violin by herself in her room. In junior high and high school PE they teach archery, golf, lacrosse, swimming, and a myriad of other sports activities that require special gear to play. Your average home schooler misses out on this.
As mentioned by another members what often happens with home school situations is the parent teaches what they decide is important. The decide for themselves what part of the state curriculum is useful and what (in their limited years of living) is worthwhile. Calculus? I never used anything beyond addition subtraction multiplication and division so that's all my son is going to learn dad-gum-it. Hence the state should oversee the education the parent is administering to see if its up to par. There has to be accountability at a basic level at least. Should a parent be able to teach a student whatever they want and call it an education? Would that be fair to the son or daughter? Sure dad thinks trig is a waste so when I finished 12th grade and took the college placement test I scored 30% because he decided for me that calc, trig, geometry and stats were a waste for him in his job as a farmer.
If you don't have hopes of your son/daughter going to college them sure the limited education you give your son/daughter from 7th to 12th grade might be OK.
Hyperwrx
New member
Originally Posted By: mjiorleOriginally Posted By: jumprightinitOriginally Posted By: mjiorlered,
You make some interesting points. Some of your views are a bit...um...extreme but interesting none the less. I agree with you to an extent, about certain groups staying out of the educational system. I'm not so sure that putting it in the hands of parents is the best measure though. Many problems that we face today in education are the negative result of parents. I pose this question: Would we all be better off if we put education solely in the hands of educators?????? (notice I didn't say unions, gvt. etc.)
Mike
Probably, with the educators being hired and fired by local school boards that are elected to serve in those positions.
Ok, but are elected school boards Educators? As a taxpayer, I like the idea of having some oversight of the spending, but as a teacher, I've seen some serious problems of school boards with personal agendas, and micromanagement.
For comparison: do engineering firms get told how to build things by kindergarten teachers?
Mike
BRAVO. Recently our school board went against the recommendation of the teachers and administration and made some dumb decisions which will cost the district students. It kills me how anything thinks they know better than a teacher what a teacher needs.
You make some interesting points. Some of your views are a bit...um...extreme but interesting none the less. I agree with you to an extent, about certain groups staying out of the educational system. I'm not so sure that putting it in the hands of parents is the best measure though. Many problems that we face today in education are the negative result of parents. I pose this question: Would we all be better off if we put education solely in the hands of educators?????? (notice I didn't say unions, gvt. etc.)
Mike
Probably, with the educators being hired and fired by local school boards that are elected to serve in those positions.
Ok, but are elected school boards Educators? As a taxpayer, I like the idea of having some oversight of the spending, but as a teacher, I've seen some serious problems of school boards with personal agendas, and micromanagement.
For comparison: do engineering firms get told how to build things by kindergarten teachers?
Mike
BRAVO. Recently our school board went against the recommendation of the teachers and administration and made some dumb decisions which will cost the district students. It kills me how anything thinks they know better than a teacher what a teacher needs.
Originally Posted By: HyperwrxThe disaster of not being able to suitably teach kids the curriculum needed. Using the word disaster was an exaggeration but you get my picture.
Show me the parent who can suitably teach all the subjects a high school provides to give a student a well rounded education. I know I can't. Junior high and high school teachers specialize in their subject matter to be able to teach it (at least in AZ that's how it is). Few parents have a good enough knowledge to teach high school calculus, advanced Spanish literature, and chemistry like they'd need to to educated their child equivalent to what a high school faculty can.
Add to that the inability of a parent to provide to resources the school system provides by you just paying your taxes. Try teaching Chemistry with what you can scrounge up in your garage or kitchen. Auto mechanics can't be taught effectively without engine hoists, hydraulic lifts, and advanced computer diagnostic tools they use in today industry. Tough to learn to play in the orchestra with just your daughter playing her violin by herself in her room. In junior high and high school PE they teach archery, golf, lacrosse, swimming, and a myriad of other sports activities that require special gear to play. Your average home schooler misses out on this.
As mentioned by another members what often happens with home school situations is the parent teaches what they decide is important. The decide for themselves what part of the state curriculum is useful and what (in their limited years of living) is worthwhile. Calculus? I never used anything beyond addition subtraction multiplication and division so that's all my son is going to learn dad-gum-it. Hence the state should oversee the education the parent is administering to see if its up to par. There has to be accountability at a basic level at least. Should a parent be able to teach a student whatever they want and call it an education? Would that be fair to the son or daughter? Sure dad thinks trig is a waste so when I finished 12th grade and took the college placement test I scored 30% because he decided for me that calc, trig, geometry and stats were a waste for him in his job as a farmer.
If you don't have hopes of your son/daughter going to college them sure the limited education you give your son/daughter from 7th to 12th grade might be OK.
In a Nutshell you are saying that parents don't know what is best for there kids. Strangers or the state know what is best. A marxist leaning philosophy.
Show me the parent who can suitably teach all the subjects a high school provides to give a student a well rounded education. I know I can't. Junior high and high school teachers specialize in their subject matter to be able to teach it (at least in AZ that's how it is). Few parents have a good enough knowledge to teach high school calculus, advanced Spanish literature, and chemistry like they'd need to to educated their child equivalent to what a high school faculty can.
Add to that the inability of a parent to provide to resources the school system provides by you just paying your taxes. Try teaching Chemistry with what you can scrounge up in your garage or kitchen. Auto mechanics can't be taught effectively without engine hoists, hydraulic lifts, and advanced computer diagnostic tools they use in today industry. Tough to learn to play in the orchestra with just your daughter playing her violin by herself in her room. In junior high and high school PE they teach archery, golf, lacrosse, swimming, and a myriad of other sports activities that require special gear to play. Your average home schooler misses out on this.
As mentioned by another members what often happens with home school situations is the parent teaches what they decide is important. The decide for themselves what part of the state curriculum is useful and what (in their limited years of living) is worthwhile. Calculus? I never used anything beyond addition subtraction multiplication and division so that's all my son is going to learn dad-gum-it. Hence the state should oversee the education the parent is administering to see if its up to par. There has to be accountability at a basic level at least. Should a parent be able to teach a student whatever they want and call it an education? Would that be fair to the son or daughter? Sure dad thinks trig is a waste so when I finished 12th grade and took the college placement test I scored 30% because he decided for me that calc, trig, geometry and stats were a waste for him in his job as a farmer.
If you don't have hopes of your son/daughter going to college them sure the limited education you give your son/daughter from 7th to 12th grade might be OK.
In a Nutshell you are saying that parents don't know what is best for there kids. Strangers or the state know what is best. A marxist leaning philosophy.
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Hyperwrx
New member
An education is of great importance in life. I am saying some parents should not be in charge of their child's education. There are others that do a fantastic job guiding their child through their education.
I also spoke about many parents not having the skill set to teach beyond 6th grade. You opted to not comment on that.
I also spoke about many parents not having the skill set to teach beyond 6th grade. You opted to not comment on that.
Originally Posted By: Hyperwrx
I also spoke about many parents not having the skill set to teach beyond 6th grade. You opted to not comment on that.
Actually I would have to disagree with you regarding this....not to insult the teachers however. If it is taken into consideration the average competency acquired by the average student, that a fair number of children will never be competent regardless of how skillful the teacher, and another percentage who could but won't because they don't care. The result will be a relatively small number of students who may be handicapped by their parents' skill set. There are ways and means that this missing education can be acquired later in life if is important to the student, regardless.
I also spoke about many parents not having the skill set to teach beyond 6th grade. You opted to not comment on that.
Actually I would have to disagree with you regarding this....not to insult the teachers however. If it is taken into consideration the average competency acquired by the average student, that a fair number of children will never be competent regardless of how skillful the teacher, and another percentage who could but won't because they don't care. The result will be a relatively small number of students who may be handicapped by their parents' skill set. There are ways and means that this missing education can be acquired later in life if is important to the student, regardless.