Shotgun thoughts

Yotarunner

Yotarunner

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So I have been lost in thought this last days off trying to decide what route I should go to improve my effectiveness with a shotgun.
Most guys in the states just move to TSS and the problem is solved but up here in Canada I have yet to see TSS in anything but 7's for turkey.
Currently mainly shooting the Hornaday coyote loads and inside 30 yards they hammer em hard but it seems past that they require extra putting down. Last one at 45 made it to 55 yards with 4 shots before finally dieing.
Pic to keep interest šŸ˜
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I have tried some 3.5 inch hevi shot 1's that hit like a ton of bricks but they are limited in supply as hevi
With a bit of searching I can find regular hevi shot waterfowl products most of which are a steel/bismuth blend. But I'm not sure how well they will work.
Current thought process is maybe to purchase an aftermarket choke to use with hornady's or heavy goose loads. Friend of mine who hunts waterfowl has results so unbelievable results with his Carlson's cremator that that's the way I'm leaning but I also see they make a coyote choke so I'm a bit at a loss as to which to choose.
What's everyone's thoughts on this? Where would you start to try to get better results?
 
3" Winchester Varmint-X BB loads are the best patterning Predator Specific loads that I have found without going the TSS route. They use the same Shot-Lok solid buffering system that is used in their Longbeard XR Turkey Loads. Not sure about availability in Canada though.
 
Yotarunner said:
So I have been lost in thought this last days off trying to decide what route I should go to improve my effectiveness with a shotgun.
Most guys in the states just move to TSS and the problem is solved but up here in Canada I have yet to see TSS in anything but 7's for turkey.
Currently mainly shooting the Hornaday coyote loads and inside 30 yards they hammer em hard but it seems past that they require extra putting down. Last one at 45 made it to 55 yards with 4 shots before finally dieing.
Pic to keep interest šŸ˜
View attachment 14082

With a bit of searching I can find regular hevi shot waterfowl products most of which are a steel/bismuth blend.
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That steel/bismuth stuff is not what you want.

If ammo selection/availability is that poor, have you considered rolling your own? Would open up a world of choices. Sticking with lead, nickel plated F has worked pretty well for me. Lot more pellets than #4 Buck, but still plenty of penetration.

This one was a long shot for me with a shotgun, crowding 50 yards. Nickel plated F. Big coyote for my area. Crumpled up and stayed still. Typical of what I saw when I was using it a lot, before going all TSS.

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- DAA
 
DAA said:
That steel/bismuth stuff is not what you want.

If ammo selection/availability is that poor, have you considered rolling your own? Would open up a world of choices. Sticking with lead, nickel plated F has worked pretty well for me. Lot more pellets than #4 Buck, but still plenty of penetration.

This one was a long shot for me with a shotgun, crowding 50 yards. Nickel plated F. Big coyote for my area. Crumpled up and stayed still. Typical of what I saw when I was using it a lot, before going all TSS.

untitled-401-2.jpg


- DAA
Click to expand...
It's funny I was starting to go down that rabbit hole when I decided to look into choke options first.
Was considering a ballistic products Tshot mould (I have access to a literal ton of soft lead) hadn't got as far as finding a press yet.
 
Regarding choke selection, don't get caught up in what name the manufacturer labels the choke for. In other words, a waterfowl choke and a coyote choke might be the very same choke, just labeled differently to appeal to a specific market. Think about the constriction of the choke rather than the picture on the packaging. A choke marketed to waterfowlers as a full might have the same constriction as a modified choke for wing-shooting upland birds. Research what bore size your shotgun has, many of the various models have different bore sizes and then look for a choke with an appropriate amount of constriction for that bore and the shot type being used.
 
when i used a shotgun it was a 12ga, 3 inch with # 4 buckshot or winchester varmint BB load with a carlsons dead coyote choke. i have killed fox, bobcat and coyotes dead from close in all the way out to 45 / 50 yards...one shot, right there. i also have a sig sauer romeo 5 red dot on it.

those TSS 7 shot should work wonders too.
 
GC said:
Regarding choke selection, don't get caught up in what name the manufacturer labels the choke for. In other words, a waterfowl choke and a coyote choke might be the very same choke, just labeled differently to appeal to a specific market. Think about the constriction of the choke rather than the picture on the packaging. A choke marketed to waterfowlers as a full might have the same constriction as a modified choke for wing-shooting upland birds. Research what bore size your shotgun has, many of the various models have different bore sizes and then look for a choke with an appropriate amount of constriction for that bore and the shot type being used.
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Very true
 
The hornady heavy mag coyote use a flightcontrol style wad and usually pattern best with an IC choke. If you are over choking that could be a cause of lower success.

But the shells themselves arent what you think they are. They apparently take the wad into consideration when they claim 1 1/2 payload, so you are really getting just over 1 1/4oz of shot. I contacted hornady about it and they said its normal.

I was not impressed with them, the patterns were lackluster and the shells light on shot.
 

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BBK said:
The hornady heavy mag coyote use a flightcontrol style wad and usually pattern best with an IC choke. If you are over choking that could be a cause of lower success.

But the shells themselves arent what you think they are. They apparently take the wad into consideration when they claim 1 1/2 payload, so you are really getting just over 1 1/4oz of shot. I contacted hornady about it and they said its normal.

I was not impressed with them, the patterns were lackluster and the shells light on shot.
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Not impressed either!
 
BBK said:
The hornady heavy mag coyote use a flightcontrol style wad and usually pattern best with an IC choke. If you are over choking that could be a cause of lower success.

But the shells themselves arent what you think they are. They apparently take the wad into consideration when they claim 1 1/2 payload, so you are really getting just over 1 1/4oz of shot. I contacted hornady about it and they said its normal.

I was not impressed with them, the patterns were lackluster and the shells light on shot.
Click to expand...
Lackluster is an understatement in my experience. Patterns were dismal out of every constriction from Cylinder through .665" from my Remington shotguns.
 
Winchester Varmint X 3" BB or try a different choke with the Hornady stuff. I can say for sure I wouldn't use them out of a full choke or a Carlson's Dead Coyote choke. The wad will get tore up before it even makes it past the end of the barrel and you'll have a tough time killing them at even 35 yards. Federal 2 3/4" #4 Buck has performed pretty decent for me as well. Remington 3" #4 Buck might be worth a try too if you can find any of that stuff. I'd try it and pattern it through your gun and see what it likes best.

If I had a choice between goose loads and those 3" Hornady coyote shells to take huntin right now I'd have geese on the box of shells I took coyote huntin. Those Heavy Coyote shells don't pattern worth a flip through anything I've shot them out of. But also that's my guns that won't. It may be as simple as changing choke tubes and you'll be killin coyotes out to 50 yards. It's hard to say. But they pattern so bad through my guns I'd take a good pattern with steel shot over huntin with those.
 
BBK said:
The hornady heavy mag coyote use a flightcontrol style wad and usually pattern best with an IC choke. If you are over choking that could be a cause of lower success.

But the shells themselves arent what you think they are. They apparently take the wad into consideration when they claim 1 1/2 payload, so you are really getting just over 1 1/4oz of shot. I contacted hornady about it and they said its normal.

I was not impressed with them, the patterns were lackluster and the shells light on shot.
Click to expand...
Well that's quite a disappointment. I have been using a mod choke if I recall correctly. Hornady says not to use more than a mod.
I do have a friend who still has loads of 2.3/4 lead #2 goose shells that I may start shooting out of a tight choke just to see how they do.
My experiences so far sound a lot like everyone else's on here so far. The patterns don't seem super great.
When it warms up I will be pulling the patterning board out at the range and double checking but so far from my coyotes killed the patterns not there.
 
limbhanger10 said:
Les Johnson- Mozart of coyote shotgunning ...just sayn
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One of Lesā€™s podcasts he talked about a very long shotgun kill with the Hornady BB loads. He said he had no idea what choke was in the gun for one. He shot the coyote several times at, I want to say he said 60-70 yards for two. Iā€™m in no way discrediting his successful killing abilities. But those two things, in my opinion do not convey ā€œartistryā€ with a shotgun. More like finger painting.
 
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About 40 yards with the Hornady 3ā€ bb is about all I would trust it for and Iā€™ve tried every choke imaginable including the constriction choice from Les. Much after 40 my patterns have always gotten real slim. Not a lot of choices available on the shelves. They do work and I have killed coyotes stone dead with them but there are a lot better choices (when loading my own) in my opinion. And thatā€™s just my opinion. Iā€™m no shotgun coyote shooting expert by any means. Some guns may like it but my 870 isnā€™t a fan.
 
Changing chokes won't make bad coyote loads into good coyote loads.

It's to bad none of the ammo manufacturers ever made lead coyote loads with BBB or T shot. There is a huge gap between lead BB shot and lead number 4 buck shot. Lead number 4 buck shot just has a very low pellet count "41pellets" in 1-7/8 of shot.

Look below at how much more penetration distance you can get by going one or two sizes bigger than lead BB shot.

From KPY Shotshell Ballistics.
1300 fps lead BB shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 44.3 yards and has about 77 pellets in 1-1/2 oz.
1300 fps lead BBB shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 53.7 yards and has about 65 pellets in 1-1/2 oz.
1300 fps lead T shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 63.4 yards and has about 56 pellets in 1-1/2 oz.

At 55 yards and less the 1-1/2 oz T shot lead load would out perform the 1-7/8 oz load of lead number 4 buck because it has 15 more pellets per shell.

Just because some turkey hunters kill some coyotes with their TSS turkey loads doesn't make a turkey load a good coyote load. A good coyote load will break down or kill coyotes that are running straight away from you. For hunting coyotes TSS #2, #3 and #4 shot all make great coyote loads.

Look below at how much farther away TSS #4 shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration compared to TSS #7 shot.

1300 fps TSS #7 shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 30.1 yards.
1300 fps TSS #4 shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 75.8 yards.

Use the little TSS pellets for turkeys and the bigger TSS pellets for killing and stopping coyotes.
 
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