Public schoolers: How's that indoctrination workin' out?

Originally Posted By: Timberbeast7I would be interested in seeing the number of home-schooling "failures" versus the number of public school "failures". Percentage wise, I bet the public school system produces FAR more "failures", even with all those people with teaching degrees "working" their hardest.


That would stand to reason because there are so many more students in public education. Also, unlike private schools or homeschools, public schools can't be selective about the students who walk through the door. They have to take everyone.
 
Originally Posted By: RubenatorI wonder how this "Simple Truck Drivers" check looks compared to yours Hype? Oh, and I didnt have to go out and rack up a tremendous amount of debt to get where I am at!



Now we're back to the money thing. Round and round we go.
 
Originally Posted By: RubenatorLet me be clear Hype, and you to Jeffo, I dont think I am better than anyone, liberal or not! Bottom line is most of us are disappointed at what the education system is churning out for the most part. And to be honest, I feel sorry for some of you teachers. I could be wrong but I think you guys would do much better at what you do if the freakin government would get the [beeep] out of the way! Oh and by the way, the Unions have got to go also! And one more thing, I dont have anything against higher education, but I dont like to be brow beaten into thinking you wont amount to anything without it! Hard work, not higher education, has done just fine for me so far! Besides, I think it is insane what it cost to send kids off to college these days! And as you know, a degree is not a guarantee to success in life.



I've said it before, I couldn't agree with this more.
 
Originally Posted By: redeyeddawgOriginally Posted By: Bill B.Some of the most useful people I have ever worked with didn't have degrees, while some of the most useles had PHD after their name. Too subjective and I don't really get too caught up in the "I have a degree and you don't" debate. It's really a waste of time and effort. Far too many people tend to believe the greater amount of pay brings with it a greater amount of class, intelligence, etc. There are a great many exceptions to that rule.

Nailed it Bill. One doesn't need a degree to understand it either.
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But a higher paycheck makes you better? (See Rube's post).
 
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Originally Posted By: jeffoOriginally Posted By: redeyeddawgOriginally Posted By: Bill B.Some of the most useful people I have ever worked with didn't have degrees, while some of the most useles had PHD after their name. Too subjective and I don't really get too caught up in the "I have a degree and you don't" debate. It's really a waste of time and effort. Far too many people tend to believe the greater amount of pay brings with it a greater amount of class, intelligence, etc. There are a great many exceptions to that rule.

Nailed it Bill. One doesn't need a degree to understand it either.
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But a higher paycheck makes you better? (See Rube's post). I didnt say that. I thought I explained myself in my following post.
 
Originally Posted By: jeffoOriginally Posted By: RubenatorLet me be clear Hype, and you to Jeffo, I dont think I am better than anyone, liberal or not! Bottom line is most of us are disappointed at what the education system is churning out for the most part. And to be honest, I feel sorry for some of you teachers. I could be wrong but I think you guys would do much better at what you do if the freakin government would get the [beeep] out of the way! Oh and by the way, the Unions have got to go also! And one more thing, I dont have anything against higher education, but I dont like to be brow beaten into thinking you wont amount to anything without it! Hard work, not higher education, has done just fine for me so far! Besides, I think it is insane what it cost to send kids off to college these days! And as you know, a degree is not a guarantee to success in life.



I've said it before, I couldn't agree with this more.

jeffo, what about the unions?
 
What about the unions? And I've said this before too. At the working man's level, unions help equalize crappy administration and stupid parents who would otherwise have someone fired for belonging to the wrong church or being left-handed. Does arbitrary firing, regardless of the productivity of the employee, sound right to you? And don't give me that crap that if an employee is productive, they will keep their job. Plenty of good workers have been fired because they didn't sleep with the boss.
 
The real issue here is how the federal government has taken more and more control. The unions of course lobby for items, but had the federal government stayed out and local control remained what the union attempted to pass at the federal level would not have mattered. Do I agree with the stance of the union on many issues? NO. I believe the direct blame is at the federal level and their ability to set federal mandate and then not fund them out. If the unions had no chance to make changes on the federal level, then the only job they would have is to protect the local workers.

I have seen plenty of "Home School" kids fail. While there are some good homeschooling parents there are many that can not do it. Again where are the stats on that? Also the same home school kids who do well at home, would do well in a public education system. it really boils down to how much value a family puts on education. Can most home school parents teach trig? Calculus? AP Bio? I also know not all teachers can teach those high end subjects, but every school should have 1 or 2. It really comes down to dedication, discipline and a willingness to work. In my freshman class I had a student who spent hours with me after school learning advanced physics. In the same class I had a JR student who failed because no matter what I did, "School is a joke." That kid is know in the system. That freshman has since qualified for a full ride scholarship to any college in the state. He choose to go for a degree in engineering.

In all honest the only difference between the 2 students: One was motivated and the other was not. One had a solid family an the other did not. One had a family where college was the option, the other did not.

No matter how hard we work as teachers, it still boils down to student motivation.

Another story:

When working in a Denver Alternative School filled with gang issues, I took a group of my students down town. They worked for a homeless shelter for a night then spent 2 nights "on the streets". this was not an assignment, but an extra credit project. The majority students that went on the trip came back to school with a renewed sense of urgency. the following semester my group of students saw a 25% decrease in failing grades. They out achieved the rest of school in growth scores etc. This was true of all students but 2 in my group. They simply said it was a stupid project and still felt that education was pointless. When left that school neither of the 2 students made it, they both dropped out. One was running gangs hard. The other was starting to show signs of heavy meth abuse.

I ask the simple question, how are these the fault of the educator or the unions? How is it my fault that these students failed? What did the union have to do with the success of my students or the failure? I will admit that there are way too many times that federal law ties our hands. I will admit thatthe federal government has no business deciding what is best for my students in my school, but success or failure in the system is primarily placed on the student. One bad teacher may cause a bump, but it really boils down to how much a student/family cares about education.
 
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Originally Posted By: jeffoWhat about the unions? And I've said this before too. At the working man's level, unions help equalize crappy administration and stupid parents who would otherwise have someone fired for belonging to the wrong church or being left-handed. Does arbitrary firing, regardless of the productivity of the employee, sound right to you? And don't give me that crap that if an employee is productive, they will keep their job. Plenty of good workers have been fired because they didn't sleep with the boss.

my bad, i missed some of this:

Let me be clear Hype, and you to Jeffo, I dont think I am better than anyone, liberal or not! Bottom line is most of us are disappointed at what the education system is churning out for the most part. And to be honest, I feel sorry for some of you teachers. I could be wrong but I think you guys would do much better at what you do if the freakin government would get the [beeep] out of the way! Oh and by the way, the Unions have got to go also!
 
sorry your greatness. ill make you a deal; i will try to make more sense, if you will please learn to spell correctly before you "responde". sound fair?
besides, you cant blame me too much. my parents didnt care about me, and i am just a product of the public education system.
 
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In all honesty, individuals like this member above come into these types or discussions with minimal tools and resources to contribute to a healthy debate. It's not entirely his fault as his upbringing, both in school and in his home, play a roll in his inability to converse on par with his peers in this thread but we all know that genetics laid the groundwork. From the error of not using a comma between the day of the month and the year, to creating a run-on sentence in his signature, to his constant poor sentence structure and failure to consistently use capital letters, he's a teacher's and parent's nightmare. "I was done wrong by pubic edjumacation" grew old 14 posts ago but can we really expect more from him? I almost have to just ignore his posts throughout this forum as beyond his jaded opinion on the subject he is about as worthless as [beeep] on a chicken.

Quote:Again where are the stats on that? Also the same home school kids who do well at home, would do well in a public education system. it really boils down to how much value a family puts on education. Can most home school parents teach trig? Calculus? AP Bio? I also know not all teachers can teach those high end subjects, but every school should have 1 or 2.

That's the truth. It makes me chuckle when parents pull their children out of public school in elementary. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that come about 7th-9th grade those same parents will sheepishly re-register their child back up when they realize they do not have the skill set to teach junior high curriculum- math, science, even social studies. What many do not understand is its called Home School but many times the parents do not teach the kids. The parents buy into an online program or a study kit or something. It then becomes, "get up and open the books (turn on the computer) you got and teach yourself'. It's a education of convenience. The lazy parent doesn't need to get up at 7am to take the kid to school. They don't need to volunteer in their daughter's classroom. No parent teacher conferences ever again. It's fantastic. Just find an excuse of something going on in the school, even something so far removed from the child as 'the government is meddling too much in education', and you now have your rational to pull your child from the structure of school.

Thank goodness the state is now holding these lazy parents accountable for the education their kids are receiving. Ideally they should assess the home-school child's knowledge once a year and if the child is not up to snuff, the parent loses their job as a pseudo-educator and the kid by law gets pulled back in public school again. A parent can be taken to court if they allow their child to be truant from school. Keeping your kid home and failing to home school him is on par with allowing him to be truant.

Let's spread the accountability around for everyone involved with educating children. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
 
Originally Posted By: HyperwrxIn all honesty, individuals like this member above come into these types or discussions with minimal tools and resources to contribute to a healthy debate. It's not entirely his fault as his upbringing, both in school and in his home, play a roll in his inability to converse on par with his peers in this thread but we all know that genetics laid the groundwork. From the error of not using a comma between the day of the month and the year, to creating a run-on sentence in his signature, to his constant poor sentence structure and failure to consistently use capital letters, he's a teacher's and parent's nightmare. "I was done wrong by pubic edjumacation" grew old 14 posts ago but can we really expect more from him? I almost have to just ignore his posts throughout this forum as beyond his jaded opinion on the subject he is about as worthless as [beeep] on a chicken.

boy, you 2 guys sure get pissy.
hyper, every time you read one of my posts, it going to be a reminder of what a failure you and most other educated idiots with some some fancy letters after your name, actually are.
you really dont get it, do you?



 
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Hyperwrx said:
In all honesty, individuals like this member above come into these types or discussions with minimal tools and resources to contribute to a healthy debate. It's not entirely his fault as his upbringing, both in school and in his home, play a roll in his inability to converse on par with his peers in this thread but we all know that genetics laid the groundwork. From the error of not using a comma between the day of the month and the year, to creating a run-on sentence in his signature, to his constant poor sentence structure and failure to consistently use capital letters, he's a teacher's and parent's nightmare. "I was done wrong by pubic edjumacation" grew old 14 posts ago but can we really expect more from him? I almost have to just ignore his posts throughout this forum as beyond his jaded opinion on the subject he is about as worthless as [beeep] on a chicken.


You sir, are in my opinion an arrogant hole.
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Originally Posted By: sweatybettysorry your greatness. ill make you a deal; i will try to make more sense, if you will please learn to spell correctly before you "responde". sound fair?
besides, you cant blame me too much. my parents didnt care about me, and i am just a product of the public education system.


Sorry for the typo.
 
Originally Posted By: RubenatorAnd its post like the one above that makes me want to jump your azz Hype!



What does that mean in English?
 
Originally Posted By: sweatybettyOriginally Posted By: HyperwrxIn all honesty, individuals like this member above come into these types or discussions with minimal tools and resources to contribute to a healthy debate. It's not entirely his fault as his upbringing, both in school and in his home, play a roll in his inability to converse on par with his peers in this thread but we all know that genetics laid the groundwork. From the error of not using a comma between the day of the month and the year, to creating a run-on sentence in his signature, to his constant poor sentence structure and failure to consistently use capital letters, he's a teacher's and parent's nightmare. "I was done wrong by pubic edjumacation" grew old 14 posts ago but can we really expect more from him? I almost have to just ignore his posts throughout this forum as beyond his jaded opinion on the subject he is about as worthless as [beeep] on a chicken.

boy, you 2 guys sure get pissy.
hyper, every time you read one of my posts, it going to be a reminder of what a failure you and most other educated idiots with some some fancy letters after your name, actually are.
you really dont get it, do you?







You seem to have some anger issues with educated people. Maybe a support group or something?
 
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Maybe we should lighten up regarding the 'educated'? We are all educated to some 'degree'! (That is a pun, the lowest form of humor!)
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Yours truly kind of went hog wild after he became eligible for the GI Bill and earned multiple degrees mostly to keep myself out of the bars.
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But if the current drift to ostracizing people who have degrees continues, we will have created yet one more non-sense basis for a new offense: "educational 'profiling'"!
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I was once called a "paid government killer" by a fellow soldier of an administrative type branch while @ DFAS, Ft. Sill!
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"Can't we just 'get along'? -Rodney King
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