allgrainbeer
New member
would anyone else like to chime in?
Only for people who USE the 223 for deer
- Thread starter allgrainbeer
- Start date
Mr. Mister
New member
Ever look into a .243? It's not that much bigger.
Just my Two-Cents.
Just my Two-Cents.
I posted this on another one of PM's boards. Here is a story that was forwarded to me today from a friend who runs "tracking dogs" in NW Georgia.
am NOT a fan of a .22 cal for deer. I trailed a wounded buck yesterday morning while it was snowing and sleeting out b/c a young man and his father were hunting together and the son shot a nice little buck with a .223 NEF. He was using Winchester 55 gr. PSP’s and hit the deer in the shoulder. The deer fell upon impact, but jumped back up and took off! When I got the call it was about an hour after the shot had occurred. It was another 45 minutes before I got on the scene… The little fellar was almost in tears when he said, “Mr. Andy, can you please find my buck…” I felt horrible for him and was going to do everything I could to locate his deer. Like I said, it was snowing and sleeting… My dogs picked up the trail just fine and was following it like a train following its iron tracks. We trailed and trailed and trailed and trailed… The dogs were pushing on, but I was about to give out. The foothills over here will kill ya and I had already left the father and son back about 2000 yards behind me. I radioed them ever few minutes just to keep in touch… Soon the deer started to turn back and head back in the direction in which he came from. He was now going down hill, in a loop, toward the only water source I knew of on the property. I was starting to feel a little better. We did finally locate the buck; some 400 yards south of where the shot occurred, but the overall trail was FOREVER. Had it not been for my dogs the little fellar would have lost his first buck… I pulled the father off to the side and told him that a .260 Rem was a very good choice for a young fellar’s 2nd deer rifle… He agreed!
I know another guy who has offered tracking dog services for many years and he claims he's been called in to track more deer shot with various .22 caliber centerfires and the .243 Winchester than all other rounds combined. While that certainly isn't a scientific study, it's hard to dismiss as nonsense either.
My own personal experience with the .223 Remingon is that they run a long ways and leave little or zero blood trail. I suppose if this was the Great Depression and that was the only rifle I had and it was the difference between eating and not eating, I would certainly use it. However, I have many rifles that are simply better choices for hunting deer sized game, so I cannot see why it would make any sense for me to use the .223 Remington again.
am NOT a fan of a .22 cal for deer. I trailed a wounded buck yesterday morning while it was snowing and sleeting out b/c a young man and his father were hunting together and the son shot a nice little buck with a .223 NEF. He was using Winchester 55 gr. PSP’s and hit the deer in the shoulder. The deer fell upon impact, but jumped back up and took off! When I got the call it was about an hour after the shot had occurred. It was another 45 minutes before I got on the scene… The little fellar was almost in tears when he said, “Mr. Andy, can you please find my buck…” I felt horrible for him and was going to do everything I could to locate his deer. Like I said, it was snowing and sleeting… My dogs picked up the trail just fine and was following it like a train following its iron tracks. We trailed and trailed and trailed and trailed… The dogs were pushing on, but I was about to give out. The foothills over here will kill ya and I had already left the father and son back about 2000 yards behind me. I radioed them ever few minutes just to keep in touch… Soon the deer started to turn back and head back in the direction in which he came from. He was now going down hill, in a loop, toward the only water source I knew of on the property. I was starting to feel a little better. We did finally locate the buck; some 400 yards south of where the shot occurred, but the overall trail was FOREVER. Had it not been for my dogs the little fellar would have lost his first buck… I pulled the father off to the side and told him that a .260 Rem was a very good choice for a young fellar’s 2nd deer rifle… He agreed!
I know another guy who has offered tracking dog services for many years and he claims he's been called in to track more deer shot with various .22 caliber centerfires and the .243 Winchester than all other rounds combined. While that certainly isn't a scientific study, it's hard to dismiss as nonsense either.
My own personal experience with the .223 Remingon is that they run a long ways and leave little or zero blood trail. I suppose if this was the Great Depression and that was the only rifle I had and it was the difference between eating and not eating, I would certainly use it. However, I have many rifles that are simply better choices for hunting deer sized game, so I cannot see why it would make any sense for me to use the .223 Remington again.
Very nice.,., I have shot my fair share of them government goats,from a 338 win mag down to this year the 223, had to see if all the hype was for real., and all I can say is seeing is believing opening day here i. MI shot my biggest eight point to date and like wise, no exit not m u ch of a blood trail, but didn't need it cause he ran down hill round 70 yrds and mowed down the pine trees..heart shot broke front leg and no exit on far side 1 bad shoulder insted of 2 bad shoulders from the 308 270 06 and so on and the antlerless permit was a head shot at 50 yrds facing me snorting. Dropped in her tracks first thing to hit the ground was her ass.... the 223 55 grain pmc sp. Got pics to prove it. So it's very capable even with the 55 grainers......
22magnum22
Well-known member
Welcome aboard Mi sniper, you most likely won't get any replies to your post as this thread is 20 yrs old.
dirtytough
Active member
There is a Mega thread on RS about using the 223 for big game. Bullet of choice seems to be the 77 TMK for big game. Definitely eye opening and makes a person realize it’s about bullets, not headstamps.
Yes I realize this is a 20 year old thread.
Yes I realize this is a 20 year old thread.
DoubleLungRage
Well-known member
Really? From years of following different forums and such it seems to me that the king of .223 for big game is the Barnes 55gr. I know the guys in Texas love it for deer/hogs.
I personally deer hunt with the .223 a lot. I like a good solid bullet like the speer gold dot, hornady interlock, etc.
dirtytough
Active member
Yep.
There are hundreds of photos in the thread of kills with the 223/77 TMK combo. Moose, elk, bears, deer, etc.
Something I learned years ago stationed in Germany. Military FMJ's do a great job If you do your part right. Would not phase me one bit to shoot even an elk with a 223. I'd probably stick with the 55gr FMJ as it worked so very well in Germany! Point here is pretty much anything will work well if you do your part right depending on the bullet your using. With a 55gr FMJ we always took neck or head shots! With a 55gr cup and core I'd still do head and neck shots. They are pretty much a sure thing if you do your part right!
GC
Well-known member
Any bullet works for head and neck shots. What is needed for head and neck shots is accuracy. And that is something FMJ bullets are not noted for. Many states forbid the use of FMJ for big game hunting.
That's what I hear, but I must not be holding my mouth right. I've tried the copper bullets in .223, 243 and .308, in several rifles, and have never gotten the accuracy I'm looking for. Others seem to have it figured out, but if penetration is the goal, I use either NP's or Swift Aframes.
As for accuracy, the NBT's or Accubonds rule for hunting; SMK's may edge out the Noslers for target shooting.
I've killed quite a number of S. TX whitetail does while culling with the 55 gr NBT's. Seems like others have had good results w/behind the shoulder shots with that bullet, I never tried it because I just wasn't confident of that light of a bullet for that shot. It is a hammer on white throat patch and a calm deer, however, same goes for head shots between the eye and ear on even the larger hogs, even when you are off a tad, as I was on this one which got into my personal space at a rapid pace one evening; rolled him up a over tea kettle.
For larger stuff I like either the NP or Accubond in a .338, both of which shoot within 1" POI @ 100 in my rifle. I like NP for Gemsbok (a bit larger than nilgai) or nilgai, which is a bit larger than Scimitar,
and either Accubond or NP for or Scimitar , depending on what is in the chamber at the moment.
Stepped up to a .375 h&h 300 gr. Swift A frame on this one (2000#), but if I ever shoot another, will probably trust the 275 gr Swift A frame in the .338.
What Gary said about FMJ's
DoubleLungRage
Well-known member
Few years ago whenever 223s were hard to find a framer called me up to take care of a hog problem. All I could find were the green tips. I killed a bunch of hogs with them. On shoulder shots they often blew the entire off side shoulder apart.
I, too, have shot a lot of hogs, many of those w/55 gr .223 NBT's. Can't vouch for shoulder shots because I never took them w/the .223; always waited for opportunity for a head shot which, best of my recollection never failed. Having said that I did have one hog that got up and disappeared. Large boar, estimated 200# came straight toward me from behind a slight rise at about 35-40 yards. I saw the bullet splash right between his eyes (my point of aim). Hog dropped like a rock, but immediately jumped back up and disappeared so quickly over the rise from whence he came, I didn't have a chance to follow up, even w/the AR. I was sure he was DRT, especially seeing the splash.
In hindsight, and studying the hog's anatomy, I am convinced that the steep slope of the forehead deflected the bullet and it never penetrated the skull. Following picture of another hog illustrates my point. My bullet path would have been parallel to this hog's snout. I actually saw the splash between his eyes. I've never, nor will I ever try a head on shot between the eyes on a hog w/a .223.
One note on the FMJ bullets on game. Will they perform on game? Absolutely....until they don't. Just my opinion, but the FMJ will tumble more often than not on impact and if they don't, there is a danger of penciling through w/little damage. There is no way to predict its path; if it is a good hit and the path remains true after tumbling, just about any bullet will work.....until they don't.
In hindsight, and studying the hog's anatomy, I am convinced that the steep slope of the forehead deflected the bullet and it never penetrated the skull. Following picture of another hog illustrates my point. My bullet path would have been parallel to this hog's snout. I actually saw the splash between his eyes. I've never, nor will I ever try a head on shot between the eyes on a hog w/a .223.
One note on the FMJ bullets on game. Will they perform on game? Absolutely....until they don't. Just my opinion, but the FMJ will tumble more often than not on impact and if they don't, there is a danger of penciling through w/little damage. There is no way to predict its path; if it is a good hit and the path remains true after tumbling, just about any bullet will work.....until they don't.
Bowhntr6pt
Well-known member
My pet load for .223 is the Speer 70gr. Semi-Spitzer with 26.0grs. W-748. Very deadly combo.
Wow. This is an OLD THREAD! I even posted on it way way back.
If you want 20 years of experience on deer with a 223 here it is.
A lot of the solid copper "X" bullets in 223 didn't open and just penciled through....not good at all.
The best bullet I have tried is a 60 grain Nosler Partition on top of 26.7 gr. of Varget.
I have recovered only two of these bullets from bucks that were shot in the front of the chest.(all broadside shots blew through and kept going)
Both bullets stopped under the hide on the back of the ham. So basically full length penetration on good sized bucks.
I would like to try the 77 gr SMKs but I think I would need a faster twist rate.
My 6 kids are all big and none of us hunt deer with a 223 anymore but if you can shoot accurately it will kill just fine. Blood trails can be really poor but usually the same length as they would have went had they been hit with a 7 mag.
If you want 20 years of experience on deer with a 223 here it is.
A lot of the solid copper "X" bullets in 223 didn't open and just penciled through....not good at all.
The best bullet I have tried is a 60 grain Nosler Partition on top of 26.7 gr. of Varget.
I have recovered only two of these bullets from bucks that were shot in the front of the chest.(all broadside shots blew through and kept going)
Both bullets stopped under the hide on the back of the ham. So basically full length penetration on good sized bucks.
I would like to try the 77 gr SMKs but I think I would need a faster twist rate.
My 6 kids are all big and none of us hunt deer with a 223 anymore but if you can shoot accurately it will kill just fine. Blood trails can be really poor but usually the same length as they would have went had they been hit with a 7 mag.
My thought having hunted( not deer) with a 223 since 1967 when things go right it is awesome when they don't there isn't room for error. The problem with the 223 isn't the experienced shooter that understands the limitations and what type of bullet to use. It's the average Joe that grabs a box of Win. White Box and heads off to the deer woods.
