NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy...

It's good to see the contributions to the thread and guys getting out there and patterning the guns, chokes, and loads before hitting the woods. That's good for everybody.

I am really liking the looks of the Remington HD-BB loads. I'm thinking that with the right choke combination they might just be the ticket. For those that are dropping down in size, Winchester and especially Federal both have high density loadings of 1 3/8 ounce of single B pellets at a scorching velocity of 1,450 fps. Those might have be worth checking out. I really do not want to drop to less than a BB pellet size, plus I'd like to maintain at least 1 1/2 ounces of shot at 1,300 fps. Federal has a load of heavy BB's at 1,450 fps, but only 1 3/8 ounce of shot - fewer pellets. I have contacted Kick's about new choke constriction recommendations for the BB and T-size shot and we'll see what they have to say. If I don't hear from them I think I'll try an extended 2" Rhino .673" with the rear porting. That just might be the ticket, the entire front is unported, it's long, and the constriction might just be the perfect "sweet spot." All I have to do is drop the $100 for the choke and buy more shells... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
GC these BB from federal were the ones I was using in my testing this past weekend. They are the High velocity/density loads.

camm026.jpg


Here is one target shot at 25yds with that same load.

camm019.jpg


Like I said earlier the penetration seemed pretty good to me at 40yds, I dont really know what your pass/fail is on that, but im going to get some more shells and chokes out this weekend.
Maybe Borrow some phone books from work /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif and see what happens.

Dave
 
Ok, well that is interesting. That is the Federal load I was speaking of. You shot that at 25 yards using the Dead Coyote choke tube, your target is the same size and scoring rings as the one I used in my testing. If I count correctly you scored 23 hits in what would be the 8" black of my target, 36 hits total in the entire 12" scoring rings.

The Remington HD-BB and Kick's .680" at 25 yards shot 35 in the inner black 8" circle and 47 total overall as a comparison. Good comparison and interesting results. Think you could measure the interior diameter of the choke tube on your gun?
 
GC I didnt have anything to measure it with so I called Carlson's and they told me that it was a .665.

The Targets I posted were Just a one shot sample, not really enough to make a definitive judgement on how consistant the BB would be, I didnt really have a lot of time, but it does give me something to go by.

This weekend Im going to shoot 3 targets with each load and choke, time/weather permitting.

Dave
 
With my 10 gauge, my best patterns with Remington hevi-shot BB's come out of a modified choke. My full choked makes it too spotty.
 
Hey thanks for making that call. That's considerably tighter than I would have thought. I was thinking it would be .670" - .675". Good info for the thread... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

yotenaylor,
I have never had great results from the more open chokes. I'm glad they work for you, I just can't make them pattern really well. This isn't the first pattern testing I've done. Been doing it for years from a variety of shotguns, chokes, and various loads. In my experience, the more open chokes don't hold up at longer ranges. Mind you, I'm talking 3" .12 gauge, not the .10 gauge where you're cramming more shot through the bore. I've owned a .10 gauge before, and shot other ones, just didn't care for it. The weight and balance threw me off. I can imagine the 3 1/2" .12 gauge as being the most finicky to pattern, that's a lot of shot and a small bore (unless overbored barrel) and could lead to all sorts of problems. Anyway, we want to make sure we're all on the same page and communicating. Summary, for my various 2 3/4" and 3" .12 gauges the more open chokes just couldn't strut their stuff out at the same distances as the more heavily constricted chokes. That within reason of course, it is absolutely possible to over choke a load. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
GC you patterns look very poor. I wouldn't hunt with any of them. I'd try some different chokes and loads if I were you. Try win extended range it performs best for me. There b load is a good one. I've only tried 3.5 inch though. I'm using lead now though everything else is to expensive for me.
 
Ok did some more testing and here is what I have

These are for Cat Slayer, he was talking about #2, so I got all excited and went out and got a box of the Federal Premium HD 3" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I only have 2 chokes atm that shoot Heavy shot so its minimal. but here they are

this one is with the dead coyote choke(.665) at 40yds

camm035.jpg


this one is with the H.S. Undertaker Heavy Shot(.675)

camm036.jpg


Pretty grim results, though im not done, going to bring out some big sheets of Cardboard or paper and see if they are shooting more to the right.

not the best but I thought id post them anyway. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif

Still have more to come when the candy is all given out or I eat it all B4 the lil gremlins get here! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Dave
 
I just note found this thread and found it most interesting. First of all I must say thanks to everyone's hard work in patterning and then making the pictures available for everyone to see. I know too well how hard that is to do. I wish I could see GC's original pictures but all I see are the red x's and can't see them so I'm totally missing out on them.

Just some food for thought here from my experience pattering my shotguns trying to get the most efficient load for turkeys. I was totally anal about it. As everyone has suggested there just aren't any shortcuts. Every shotgun will shoot different just the way they are made. Then you go adding choke combinations and different ammo into the mix can get very confusing. So the only way to get that deadly load is to get out and try it on paper. Then try something different to compare then something else.

Chokes are expensive especially the better extended ones. Kick's has a policy where if you order a choke from them and it doesn't shoot what you want you send it back (your expense) they ship you another one. Say it was too tight then you say I want something .005 more open, etc. Now that's better than dishing out anywhere from $40 on up on a choke and having it not do anything then your stuck with it. They have charts there that give starting points. I called and talked with Charlie Boswell I believe the guy that runs it. He asked what gun I was using and what shot I wanted to use then said this is what I would suggest. As luck would have it first choke was the best but that's another story. Better to have that ability to send it back if needed then to save a dollar in my book.

Another point we're asking alot out of a 12ga to pattern good to that magical 50 yd mark. The difference between 40yds and 50yds is amazing. I know most people on here probably have the 3" models and that's even tougher to some degree. My experience with my shotguns for turkey was that a 3" Rem 11-87 out patterned a 3 1/2" 11-87. The 3" has a 28" barrel and the 3 1/2 has a 23" barrel. I believe there is something to the longer barrel theory. In turkey hunting you always hear stories about the "long tom turkey guns" those are the older model guns with the long barrels. From my experience I tend to believe that. Of course the longer models are not the greatest for carrying through the woods but I do believe there is something to them patterning better.

I'll just throw this out there. 3 1/2 inch 12ga are not 10ga's as much as people want them to be. Me most of all. To get a DEADLY 50 yd + gun I'd start with a 10ga. BUT most don't want a speciality gun like that me included but I said it. I'm going to start patterning my shotguns for a yote load soon. I'll try and keep contributing to this topic. I know it's going to be no fun doing, cost some money, alot of time plus my shoulder will certainly hurt but also know if I want a great longer range shot I need to do it. Lastly I agree that I could probably settle for a 40yd shooting gun and get away with it but I won't. Just on that off chance I need those 10 + magical yards.
 
Hummm... must be a problem with the picture hosting website. I'll keep an eye on it and see if it corrects itself. If not I guess I'll have to load all that stuff elsewhere and redo the pic's... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

Kal52,
Thanks for posting those patterns and hanging with this thread. I agree, they aren't as we'd like them to be.
 
GC,
I am still shooting the 12 gauge Browning BPS "Game Gun" that takes the standard Invector choke tubes. I have gone thru about a dozen rounds of 3" Dead Coyote fodder in past week or two. My best results so far with the Dead Coyote has been with the Kick's Buck Kicker X-Full which is .690 I.D. This combo looks good to fifty yards, and I haven't tried it any further as of yet. Here is a fifty yard photo.
DeerCall005.jpg
 
I went out and bought some 2 3/4 fed premium BB last weekend also just to see how it compared to the 3" HD that I had already tried. Here they are...

this one is with the Undertaker HS (.675)
camm049.jpg


This one is with the Dead Coyote (.665)
camm047.jpg


Just for fun I got these Hastings chokes for really really cheap, they are pretty dang tight but I though for that price what the heck

Hastings .650
camm046.jpg


and the Hastings .645
camm045.jpg


when talking about too much choke, I was looking for these to give a good example of that, but the tightest one did the best /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif. although I wont be using it, just thought I would show a comparison of the REALLY tight chokes.

I think im going to go up to at least .680, going to try some of the cabelas chokes, they are a bit cheaper and have a good aray of sizes.

thanks again

Dave
 
Rich,
Yes, that does look good. I think that is better than my results.

Kal,
You have become a patterning fool my friend! I'm lovin' it and appreciate the efforts. See, that over choking thing - dang shotguns and chokes and the way loads interact are so stupid fickle it's hard to tell what the heck they're gonna do.

Hey look... my pictures are back! Thank goodness, I really didn't want to repost all those.
 
Update... Chuck from Kick's chokes generously sent me a new Kick's Gobblin' Thunder .670" to test. As soon as deer season is over this next week I plan on hitting the pattern boards with this new .670" and wring it out. I've got a good feeling about it...
 
I will be watching for your results GC, keep this thread going. I am planning on shooting the Remington Wingmaster HD 3" BB's and T shot at some paper and maybe do another penetration test between the HD BB's and the Federal Premium copper coated lead BB's. I will post some pictures when I do it.
 
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