NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy...
- Thread starter GC
- Start date
derbyacresbob
Well-known member
Those Remington Wingmaster HD #2's have so many pellets in them and pattern so good a Modified choke maybe tight enough. This picture is in this post somewhere, it is 3" Rem HD 2's.
This pattern was shot with a Carlson's Dead Coyote Choke at 40 yards. The Rem HD 2's also out penetrated lead copper coated BB's when I shot them into catalogs.
This pattern was shot with a Carlson's Dead Coyote Choke at 40 yards. The Rem HD 2's also out penetrated lead copper coated BB's when I shot them into catalogs.
GC
Well-known member
Good info Bob, thanks for that. One point to remember, the smaller the shot, the more of them is needed to effect a reliable kill. I've always wanted 5 - 6 No. Four Buck pellets in the vitals for good clean kills. T-shot and BB's need a few more pellets and the lower down the shot size scale the more would be needed yet.
remington870
New member
I did a little calling today and ran into a group of hound hunters. They were all using shotguns and 000 buck. They said they've found it works best for them. I've done well with turkey loads and high velocity loads of 4's and 2's. Alot of people like to use number 4 buck, dead coyote, or bb I also like them too. It proves to me that you don't have to have the text book load in your shotgun. A good tight pattern and calling them into reasonable ranges is where its at.
Semp
New member
Quote:
Question--
Live in KY, where buckshot isn't allowed, in fact nothing larger than #2 shot. Would like to work up a choke/load for my mossberg. What would you guys suggest? 3.5 Magnum. What would the max range be on a yote?
Not true, deathbringer. In KY one can use T shot or smaller for coyotes. But no buckshot.
The #2 shot restriction is for small game. (rabbits, squirrels, etc.) Coyotes are considered to be a furbearer and comes under different rules.
Question--
Live in KY, where buckshot isn't allowed, in fact nothing larger than #2 shot. Would like to work up a choke/load for my mossberg. What would you guys suggest? 3.5 Magnum. What would the max range be on a yote?
Not true, deathbringer. In KY one can use T shot or smaller for coyotes. But no buckshot.
The #2 shot restriction is for small game. (rabbits, squirrels, etc.) Coyotes are considered to be a furbearer and comes under different rules.
TexasAg93
New member
Well, I finally got the holidays over with for now and got out to pattern my Benelli with the Burris Fast Fire installed. Wind was horrible but got centered at 30yds.
This is the Winchester Supreme 3" #4 turkey load. Mod choke in 18.5" barrel. Let me say that its a butt kicker! Bout let the Benelli get away from me on the first shot. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
4 center squares are about 5"x5". I got 14 hits in that at 30yds. I am going to go with this for now until I can get some other rounds to test.
This is the Winchester Supreme 3" #4 turkey load. Mod choke in 18.5" barrel. Let me say that its a butt kicker! Bout let the Benelli get away from me on the first shot. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
4 center squares are about 5"x5". I got 14 hits in that at 30yds. I am going to go with this for now until I can get some other rounds to test.
missouriman
New member
Quote:
GC,
I just got through reading this entire thread and think you pretty well summed it up in your last post. I agree that 50 yards is not a gimme, and to find a combination that will reliably do it sometimes takes a lot of effort/chokes/ and ammunition, even then some luck mixed in don't hurt. On any shotgunned coyote I always plan on giving him another dose or two, especially on the longer shots. I would say my average shotgunned coyote is less than 40 yards and don't need a second shot but over 40 they sometimes do and experience has taught me that when in doubt give him some more. I've even been known to cut the distance a few yards before giving him another.
On deciding between the heavy weights and lead I will always go with the heavy weights for the extra energy as well as hardness. They just flat out penetrate and break bones better. I've killed lots of coyotes and a few cats with the DC and a couple with the HD stuff and it just flat crushes bones and penetrates better than anything I've ever used. It is more expensive but worth the extra cost to me. With guys like you putting in the work and narrowing down what works the best it will save us all a bunch of money narrowing down our best combinations to try for ourselves.
I plan on testing the Remington HD more in the next few weeks when I get more chokes and my shotgun. I did however cut open a DC load and a HD load to see what the difference was, if any. Here are a couple of pictures of what I saw. It’s apparent that the HD stuff is slicker looking and is slightly more uniform. Not sure how they are made but the Remington stuff is not as brittle as the DC. Not sure whether or not it makes a difference or not but I was unable to break the Remington shot with pliers and was easily able to crush the DC stuff. I'd heard rumors that the Remington stuff was softer. I don't think so as I was unable to get a mark on it with considerable effort on the pliers. Keep in mind I'm not saying this makes it more effective on coyotes at all. It's simply just an observation.
Thanks everyone for sharing your results.
Byron
where are u finding the remington hd tshot at ?? the basspro shop here dont carrie them,
and do u think they are a better bet than the dead coyote shot shells ???
GC,
I just got through reading this entire thread and think you pretty well summed it up in your last post. I agree that 50 yards is not a gimme, and to find a combination that will reliably do it sometimes takes a lot of effort/chokes/ and ammunition, even then some luck mixed in don't hurt. On any shotgunned coyote I always plan on giving him another dose or two, especially on the longer shots. I would say my average shotgunned coyote is less than 40 yards and don't need a second shot but over 40 they sometimes do and experience has taught me that when in doubt give him some more. I've even been known to cut the distance a few yards before giving him another.
On deciding between the heavy weights and lead I will always go with the heavy weights for the extra energy as well as hardness. They just flat out penetrate and break bones better. I've killed lots of coyotes and a few cats with the DC and a couple with the HD stuff and it just flat crushes bones and penetrates better than anything I've ever used. It is more expensive but worth the extra cost to me. With guys like you putting in the work and narrowing down what works the best it will save us all a bunch of money narrowing down our best combinations to try for ourselves.
I plan on testing the Remington HD more in the next few weeks when I get more chokes and my shotgun. I did however cut open a DC load and a HD load to see what the difference was, if any. Here are a couple of pictures of what I saw. It’s apparent that the HD stuff is slicker looking and is slightly more uniform. Not sure how they are made but the Remington stuff is not as brittle as the DC. Not sure whether or not it makes a difference or not but I was unable to break the Remington shot with pliers and was easily able to crush the DC stuff. I'd heard rumors that the Remington stuff was softer. I don't think so as I was unable to get a mark on it with considerable effort on the pliers. Keep in mind I'm not saying this makes it more effective on coyotes at all. It's simply just an observation.
Thanks everyone for sharing your results.
Byron
where are u finding the remington hd tshot at ?? the basspro shop here dont carrie them,
and do u think they are a better bet than the dead coyote shot shells ???
coyote control
New member
I got the Rem T shot from Sportsmen Warehouse.
GC
Well-known member
MM,
I ordered all mine from MidwayUSA in Columbia, MO. Cabela's is another good source. Regarding which is better, it would seem the HD shot is less brittle and prone to breaking up. HD is also touted as being more choke and pattern friendly and not as hard on barrels and chokes as the Hevi-Shot. When you factor in the great rebate Remington has been running on the stuff, it is substantially cheaper than Hevi-Shot. I maxed my rebate out last year and Remington was good for their word sending a $150.00 check to me about 4 weeks after I sent in the rebate. HD works for me... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
I ordered all mine from MidwayUSA in Columbia, MO. Cabela's is another good source. Regarding which is better, it would seem the HD shot is less brittle and prone to breaking up. HD is also touted as being more choke and pattern friendly and not as hard on barrels and chokes as the Hevi-Shot. When you factor in the great rebate Remington has been running on the stuff, it is substantially cheaper than Hevi-Shot. I maxed my rebate out last year and Remington was good for their word sending a $150.00 check to me about 4 weeks after I sent in the rebate. HD works for me... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
missouriman
New member
thanks GC,
I was hopeing not to have to pay that haz mat shipping, but it would give me a good reason to order some powder also /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I wish this basspro shop here would carry it but not yet ,heck they dont even carry the dead coyote choke , I had to oder it from Cabela's, so it should be here friday /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
anyway thanks
I was hopeing not to have to pay that haz mat shipping, but it would give me a good reason to order some powder also /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I wish this basspro shop here would carry it but not yet ,heck they dont even carry the dead coyote choke , I had to oder it from Cabela's, so it should be here friday /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
anyway thanks
missouriman
New member
GC
midway only has those on Seasonal Run and they are out now , ill keep looking thanks
midway only has those on Seasonal Run and they are out now , ill keep looking thanks
missouriman
New member
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missouriman
New member
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
gobblr addict
New member
Hey fellows....Been a long time away from here! Read this great post all the way through.....As my name suggests, I'm addicted to turkey hunting.....I say that to say this....
I've done extensive testing for 4-5yrs. with turkey shot and many choke tubes. I started out hunting with a Winchester pump a .665" Kick's GT and Win.#5's. They were the best thing in the early 90's going, with 35yds effective range...
Kick's and Comp-n-choke were two of the best chokes going and are still in the top 5, IMO.....
With the advent of Hevi-shot came Dead Coyote and others experimenting with tungsten mixes. I am one who has to have the best shooting gun possible toting in the woods. All of my friends too kept evolving to non-leaded loads.
What almost all of us found was a need to open up the chokes from non-overbored guns, Remingtons and Winchesters, and even some back bored guns like Brownings. We all moved from .655-665" constriction chokes to .670-.680" chokes, namely a factory Rem. XFull. And today, I'm planning to shoot some handloaded Hevi-shot loads with .700" Carlson's Full on the business end of my Rem. 870. A friend is handloading these HD loads and suggests .700"+...
yotenaylor, Rich Cronk, and derbyacresbob, all seem to have experienced the same results as I and 5-6 other hardcore turkey hunters found when moving towards shooting the hard-hitting Hevi-shot/tungsten loads.
Now some may say I'm crazy, but I believe the best patterning loads going are by Nitro Ray Filigomo of Nitro Company. These custom loads are so expensive, I'm ashamed to tell that they are $6.00-$7.00/shell. His ammo is famous for him mixing shot sizes, such as 4x5x7's, etc.
Someone above mentioned better patterns with non-ported tubes, and I too am finding this to be true with Hevi-shot and Remington HD loads. Kick's and Comp-n-choke do not recommend Hevi-shot anyways....Some friends do still shoot it despite warnings from the company.
When I first started shooting Hevi-shot I was shooting at a target with a 2" PVC pipe target stand. Copper-plated lead shot would just glance off the 2" PVC. Then as I shot Remington's Hevi-shot and Nitro Cos., the heavier than lead shots completely penetrated the 2" pipe!! I could hardly believe it...
Now I have not and probably will not shoot any loads for yote hunting as they are too darn tough to get in close here in the east. But I just wanted to say that I've found Hevi-shot or any tungsten-mixed loads perform better at longer ranges (40+ yds.) with moderately open chokes versus tight turkey chokes. And by what I've read here in experiments with T's, BB's, 1B, etc., looks like Rem HD BB's would be what I'd buy to start out if I do get antsy to bust a yote with a scattergun! Thanks for all the great pix and such. I'm sorry the post was so long! gobblr addict
I've done extensive testing for 4-5yrs. with turkey shot and many choke tubes. I started out hunting with a Winchester pump a .665" Kick's GT and Win.#5's. They were the best thing in the early 90's going, with 35yds effective range...
Kick's and Comp-n-choke were two of the best chokes going and are still in the top 5, IMO.....
With the advent of Hevi-shot came Dead Coyote and others experimenting with tungsten mixes. I am one who has to have the best shooting gun possible toting in the woods. All of my friends too kept evolving to non-leaded loads.
What almost all of us found was a need to open up the chokes from non-overbored guns, Remingtons and Winchesters, and even some back bored guns like Brownings. We all moved from .655-665" constriction chokes to .670-.680" chokes, namely a factory Rem. XFull. And today, I'm planning to shoot some handloaded Hevi-shot loads with .700" Carlson's Full on the business end of my Rem. 870. A friend is handloading these HD loads and suggests .700"+...
yotenaylor, Rich Cronk, and derbyacresbob, all seem to have experienced the same results as I and 5-6 other hardcore turkey hunters found when moving towards shooting the hard-hitting Hevi-shot/tungsten loads.
Now some may say I'm crazy, but I believe the best patterning loads going are by Nitro Ray Filigomo of Nitro Company. These custom loads are so expensive, I'm ashamed to tell that they are $6.00-$7.00/shell. His ammo is famous for him mixing shot sizes, such as 4x5x7's, etc.
Someone above mentioned better patterns with non-ported tubes, and I too am finding this to be true with Hevi-shot and Remington HD loads. Kick's and Comp-n-choke do not recommend Hevi-shot anyways....Some friends do still shoot it despite warnings from the company.
When I first started shooting Hevi-shot I was shooting at a target with a 2" PVC pipe target stand. Copper-plated lead shot would just glance off the 2" PVC. Then as I shot Remington's Hevi-shot and Nitro Cos., the heavier than lead shots completely penetrated the 2" pipe!! I could hardly believe it...
Now I have not and probably will not shoot any loads for yote hunting as they are too darn tough to get in close here in the east. But I just wanted to say that I've found Hevi-shot or any tungsten-mixed loads perform better at longer ranges (40+ yds.) with moderately open chokes versus tight turkey chokes. And by what I've read here in experiments with T's, BB's, 1B, etc., looks like Rem HD BB's would be what I'd buy to start out if I do get antsy to bust a yote with a scattergun! Thanks for all the great pix and such. I'm sorry the post was so long! gobblr addict
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JWG,
I cant speak to how it does on coyote, Im sure from what Ive read here, Just fine. I do know that Itll kill a skunk, coons and porcupines at 40ish and a bit beyond, not sure how far beyond since I didnt go to pick up the skunks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.
Good luck
Dave
I cant speak to how it does on coyote, Im sure from what Ive read here, Just fine. I do know that Itll kill a skunk, coons and porcupines at 40ish and a bit beyond, not sure how far beyond since I didnt go to pick up the skunks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.
Good luck
Dave
remington870
New member
A dense pattern and center it on the head of a yote. You'll be fine.
I am trying to choose a load for my Mossberg 835 for as much range as my pattern will give on coyotes. I came with 6 loadings.
Two Remington : Wingmaster HD 3.5" 1.75oz BB at 1300fps and 1.625oz T at 1350fps
Two Federal : New coyote high density (if available) 3" 1.5 oz BB at 1350fps and waterfowl high density 3.5" 1.625 oz BB+ at 1450 fps (!)
Two Winchester: Coyote high density 3" 1.375 oz at ?fps and waterfowl high density 3.5 " 1.625 oz at ?fps
Which loading do you recommend?
I am interested in two loadings the most, the Federal waterfowl loading at 1450fps and the Winchester waterfowl load (I am guessing that this is also fast).
Does anybody have experience with the Federal waterfowl load? The shot is shaped differently.
Does anybody know the velocity of the two Winchester loads I listed? I cannot find it.
Also, with these loads do smooth chokes or chokes that grab the wad tend to pattern better? Do extended chokes tend to pattern better? What choke size is good to start with?
Two Remington : Wingmaster HD 3.5" 1.75oz BB at 1300fps and 1.625oz T at 1350fps
Two Federal : New coyote high density (if available) 3" 1.5 oz BB at 1350fps and waterfowl high density 3.5" 1.625 oz BB+ at 1450 fps (!)
Two Winchester: Coyote high density 3" 1.375 oz at ?fps and waterfowl high density 3.5 " 1.625 oz at ?fps
Which loading do you recommend?
I am interested in two loadings the most, the Federal waterfowl loading at 1450fps and the Winchester waterfowl load (I am guessing that this is also fast).
Does anybody have experience with the Federal waterfowl load? The shot is shaped differently.
Does anybody know the velocity of the two Winchester loads I listed? I cannot find it.
Also, with these loads do smooth chokes or chokes that grab the wad tend to pattern better? Do extended chokes tend to pattern better? What choke size is good to start with?
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