After the first shot the rest is just noise.

William Suter said:
That's AWS's signature line and it makes perfect sense to me. I was at the club yesterday working loads for my T/C and a couple of fellows were on the pistol range. It sounded like a war zone. Mag dump after mag dump after mag dump and this went on for a long time. Aside from burning up a few hundred rounds of ammo and probably their barrels, what was accomplished? Maybe they think they are GI Joe in a war or something. I watch videos of shooters doing the same thing. I call it spray and pray. I'm more of a one shot one kill kind of shooter. Does quantity over quality make up for poor marksmanship? Just seems like a terrible waste to me and it really tears up the targets that me and another guy have to replace.
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Was hoping someday one of my grand kids would take up hunting. Grand daughter seems to like shooting but seem Taught her dad, my son, Seem's to me she simply wants to see how fast she can mty the mag! I taught her dad to shoot with bolt actions but anymore about all he shoot's is my 25-05 and AR type rifles. Only time I ever saw him take a bolt action, he went pig hunting with me. sad for me, got her a brand new Mod 70 feather weight in 6.5x55 hoping she'd hunt someday but doesn't look like she going to now so keeping the rifle for myself till she's ready. She met a guy on Facebook from Florida with no hunting of fishing background at all yet he's pumped on getting to go hunting ASAP and taking up fishing just because he want's to. But he's into AR type rifles too I think because that's what my son lets him shoot, he's bought himself three in the last year or so. All 223's so come deer season I'm either gonna let him use a 243 Mossberg pareiot I have or the 25-06 my son try's to claim! have pretty much decided I'm gonna let him call me grandpa! I got him his first hunting knife for Christmas and he really likes it!

My dad's family are from Michigan and were all hunters, my stepdad born and raised in New York City and never really seemed to care for hunting. Huh, I take after my dad's family in Michigan! Step dad did his best by my older brother and myself but hunting just didn't turn him on, fishing did!
TXCOONDOG said:
That is a broad and unfair statement. Everyone has a right to shoot the way they see fit to a certain point as long they're safe about it.

I shoot in speed shooting comps and must practice if I'm going to be competitive.
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I think a lot of this has to do with the newer generations shooting for sport only. A cousin in Mischigan told me about my family when my dad and unckes ere kids they would go out hunting rabbits for dinner and grandma would give them five shells and they better bring back five rabbits, My grandparents were born in Poland and in those days people hunted for food, they lived off what they killed. All the stuff people do today simply wasn't done. Those were the rules My grandparents set for my dad and uncles. Not to say they didn't enjoy hunting, they did but it was about feeding the family. Risky shots were not taken, God help you if you were caught. Back then ammo was expensive! fact is I mostly subsistence hunt and still enjoy hunting. Practicing with my hand guns I don't shoot fast at all and most my shooting is inside 15 deet. Like to take my 32 long or a 22 RF rabbit hunting now and then but mostly I have handguns for self defense. Your nor defending yourself shooting at someone 49 yds off! Today shooting is a really different persuit, It seems to me its primarily sport or pampering an ego.

Met a guy from Kansas City years ago that loved hunting but didn't ear the game. He gave it all away. Another guy wanted to kill an elk at 1000 yds then he wanted to go back to bow hunting. Wonder how many elk he's wounded!
 
Shooting means many different things to different people. Just because it isn't your sport doesn't mean it is wrong for someone else. This post is not directed toward anyone in particular.
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Absolutely. My gripe was not about rate of fire (we sponsor rapid fire courses which include rapid fire strings and practice for those as well),
but it seems that the slob shooters (destructive ones that shoot up target frames, etc. intentionally, don't pick up their trash and so forth) do so as rapidly as they can pull the trigger (which I referred to as mag dumps) without regard as to where the bullet actually ends up!!!
Worst case example on our range was years ago someone completely shot down a 5" mesquite limb overhanging the 200 yard firing line with a large caliber rifle. Most likely done by fence jumpers as our range is easily accessible by farm roads from 3 directions and is unsupervised by club personnel except on match days.
 
hm1996 said:
Very true on pistol range or w/lead rifle bullets, but there are some who would consider that a challenge on a rifle range. ;)
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GC said:
The V of the angle iron deflects rounds. That is why some guys wrap it with rubber belting material, so the heavy rubber catches bullet fragments. The angle turns the bullets to one side or the other with no damage to the "post."
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Many years ago a group of club members did some experimenting, with various scrap metal as targets using everything from 30-06 AP to all sorts of factory and handloaded cup & core bullets. One memorable shot with a hunting soft-point (30-06 IIRC, probably 150-180 grain). The pipe was stood on end @ 100 yards, the bullet struck right edge of pipe at about a 45* angle to surface of pipe. I would have expected the bullet would have glanced off, but much to our surprise, it penetrated one wall (1/4" or so) of the pipe completely. Wish I had taken a picture but the damage to pipe was obvious that, while the bullet struck at a 45* angle, it then turned (as if the bullet hinged on the point) and penetrated the wall @ a 90* angle to the surface. A picture would sure be easier than to type this description. IDK if a SP would tend to deflect if striking a flat surface at an angle or not, but lead bullets are definitely deflected by angled steel strikes.

I am assuming that the soft point had something to do with the 45* "turn" the bullet made upon impact. It may answer a question I have long pondered as to why the .30 GI AP ammo has a small lead cap between the penetrator and the bullet jacket???? 2nd bullet from right similar to, if not a .30 cal AP.
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The pictures below are of a piece of 3/4" hot rolled steel plate. .30 AP complete penetration @ 12:30, 30-06 factory Silver tip (center) 30-06 150 gr SP w/50.5 gr 4895 4 o'clock, 222 factory @ 6:30, suspect 30-06 adjacent to 222.
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30-06 AP exit @ 7 o'clock, 308 win (2) @ 9 o'clock, 30-30 (2) @ 5 o'clock.....not sure of others strikes.
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Our club has 700 members (600 acres of land), and we all voted to raise the annual fees to cover maintenance and construction projects. All members must provide their own target stands, all projectiles must impact the berms, three violations and your put-on a probation period. Any members caught shooting signage, wildlife and destruction of property must face the Club Board and 98% time they lose their membership. Every year, each member must take a test that covers the rules, and you must make 100 in order to renew your membership. All members must also sign a liability waiver along with each guest you bring.

hm1996,

What type of rapid-fire courses?

I do a lot of speed revolver. We also have Hit factor pistol matches under USPSA rules. Tried three guns but always in the middle of the pack so I dropped out. I just switched to PRS rifle and silhouette matches (becoming my favorite).
 
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Can't 'draw' at the range so I pick up the pistol and don't aim @ 7 yds, do a double tap to body, then repeat. Gotta keep the elbow into the gut. Aim to hit the head. I ain't 'running' anywhere fast. I usually go through 50 -100 rnds per session. 40sw/9mm cast. If you don't have the numbered targets, just use the corners.
hip 40 x.JPG
 
I'm not in a position that mandates rules of shooting other than no full autos or shot and enforcing safety. If a shooter wants to shoot 1000 or 10,000 rounds its not my business. The people I was referring to were "mag dumpers". It was like they were trying to get as many rounds fired as fast as they could and this went on for quite a while before they stopped. Myself and a friends were inside our All Weather Building and the pistol range is separate from the rifle range and maybe 50-60 yards away. We both looked at each other and said "what a waste of ammo". Now way there was accuracy involved. Just noise!
 
TXCOONDOG said:
hm1996,

What type of rapid-fire courses?
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I started conducting NRA XTC highpower matches (includes 10 round rapid fire from sitting and prone) for our club in 1983 on a 200 yard club range set up for IHMSA silhouette competition. We lost that range a few years later to USF&W for a wildlife corridor but found an old 500 yard national guard range which we converted to 600 yard. It was an arrowhead shaped strip about 200' wide and by the time we pushed up a 35' high backstop was barely 600 yards long. We hired the dirt work done w/club money + a Friend of the NRA grant and borrowed the rest from NRA and then constructed the entire range w/volunteers (mostly from the two competitive program shooters at the time, & using one paid contractor and various equipment rented or borrowed from members as needed).
We built pits for our 600 yd matches and moved the silhouette setup and later superimposed 100 yard targets for smallbore rifle competition. A few years later we added F class HP rifle competitions, so we had matches every Sunday but range was open to members for casual shooting any other days and after matches completed on Sundays. Worked pretty well for the most part, but the problems occur when no club supervision during the week and probably 99% from fence jumpers.
 
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