224 Valkyrie for coyotes???

Originally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24Originally Posted By: varminter .223Originally Posted By: Captramrod01Of coarse it's worth a discussion but telling the OP the 22 Nosler is better at killing coyotes is just bad advise. From what I've seen both are capable of shooting the lighter bullets at close to the same speed with the advantage going to the Valk. On top of that the Valk can also shoot the heavies if one chooses to.
All you guys keep telling him that it's close to the same speed as a Nosler but you know what it's not the same speed. Oh but you have the option of Heavy's just like let's buy a dually truck to get groceries in just in case we wanted to know a heavy boat.
"But the water capacity difference!"...If you have ever worked with the x47, br, norma mag or similar case designs you'd know that these newer case designs are very efficient. The Valk case design is very similar to those and reaps the benefits.

I'm failing to see a reason not to go Valk. The 22 Nosler did not catch on and is clearly dying while the exact opposite is true for the Valk. Better brass, more efficient case design, ability to run light or heavy, industry support. Seems like a win to me.
You guys keep saying the valkyrie will get close to the 22 Nosler with speed why would you want to get close to the speed when you can just have a 22 nosler. Oh I guess you want the option of shooting heavy slow bullets. How about the option of shooting a lighter bullet even faster.
Telling someone to build a rifle that shoots the bullet they want to shoot slowerer just in case they want to shoot a heavier bullet sounds like bad advice to me

Again, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Valkyrie will shoot light bullets just as well and fast as the Nosler but do a whole lot more and with better brass and ammo availability. But can't tell you anything because you've got your mind made up that Nosler is the end all be all, because its what you bought and you're stuck on it.
I think you need to look back at your first post here and reread it. You said your number one reason to not shoot the 22 Nosler was soft brass end cycling issues. The brass is not soft it isnt going to wear out any faster than anything else and they cycle just fine.
 
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Originally Posted By: varminter .223At what velocity have you shot 55 grain bullets out of your Valkyrie?

Why don't you go back and actually pay attention to my previous replys instead of reading them and ignoring them because it's not what you want to hear. The answer you seek is in there.
 
Originally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24Originally Posted By: varminter .223At what velocity have you shot 55 grain bullets out of your Valkyrie?

Why don't you go back and actually pay attention to my previous replys instead of reading them and ignoring them because it's not what you want to hear. The answer you seek is in there.
If memory serves me you didn't ever shoot 55 you just went on theorizing about how fast and accurate they would be.
 
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Originally Posted By: varminter .223Originally Posted By: Redneckbmxer24Originally Posted By: varminter .223At what velocity have you shot 55 grain bullets out of your Valkyrie?

Why don't you go back and actually pay attention to my previous replys instead of reading them and ignoring them because it's not what you want to hear. The answer you seek is in there.
If memory serves me you didn't ever shoot 55 you just went on theorizing about how fast and accurate they would be.

Dang, you were actually paying attention to some of it. You are correct, but I don't think it takes a genius to see that when the factory 60gr ammo is clocking nearly 3400fps that dropping down 5gr and loading your own will get you to 3500fps.

Send me a box of whatever 55's you want to see tested and I'll gladly give you an exact number.
 
Point is the 224 Valkyrie to shoot the heavies it was advertised and designed to shoot needs to be a 6.5 twist. I would go out on a limb and say that that is going to be less than ideal for shooting a 55 grain bullet at top speeds. The 22 Nosler is based on shooting a 55 grain bullet at top speeds.
 
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Hodgdons data has 224 Valkyrie doing 3489fps with CFE223 and a 55gr Nosler BT. So their data backs up my hypothesis and I've always found their data to be on the conservative side of pressures.
 
Originally Posted By: varminter .223Point is the 224 Valkyrie to shoot the heavies it was advertised and designed to shoot needs to be a 6.5 twist. I would go out on a limb and say that that is going to be less than ideal for shooting a 55 grain bullet at top speeds. The 22 Nosler is based on shooting a 55 grain bullet at top speeds.

Again you didn’t absorb a single thing. You don’t need a 6.5 twist, a 7 does fine but you’re arguing a .5” twist difference and that’s just silly.

Hodgdons data which I referenced was done with a 7 twist and they didn’t seem to have any issues with 55 and even 50gr bullets for their data. Fun fact, you can’t over stabilize a bullet. As long as it isn’t coming apart spinning faster won’t hurt a thing and there’s many world class shooters that believe a faster twist delivers better accuracy than what just neededz
 
Disclaimer: I do not own either cartridge and am looking at the comparison with no bias whatsoever. (I'm more of a 6mm bullet guy for coyotes myself.)

That being said-------

Hodgdon's data has the 224 valkyrie pushing the 55 gr nosler ballistic tip 3459 fps with 30.5 gr cfe223. with the same bullet and powder and barrel length, the 22 Nosler is getting 3563 fps with 33.5 gr. A 3% increase in velocity while using 10% more powder is not exactly awe inspiring. Just sayin.
 
Well you guys get your fast twist Valkyries out and run some fifties and 55s through it and report back with some 5 shot groups. You want to say that that little bit of extra speed isn't ahh inspiring yet it is extra speed. If the tables were turned you'd be blowing about how the valkyrie has all that extra speed.
 
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If the tables were turned, I wouldn't care. Like I said, neither of the aforementioned cartridges are near and dear to my heart. I just look at things analytically and comment on what I find.
 
Originally Posted By: JDF_GSPDisclaimer: I do not own either cartridge and am looking at the comparison with no bias whatsoever. (I'm more of a 6mm bullet guy for coyotes myself.)

That being said-------

Hodgdon's data has the 224 valkyrie pushing the 55 gr nosler ballistic tip 3459 fps with 30.5 gr cfe223. with the same bullet and powder and barrel length, the 22 Nosler is getting 3563 fps with 33.5 gr. A 3% increase in velocity while using 10% more powder is not exactly awe inspiring. Just sayin.
That is also in a 24-inch barrel and it's a compressed load so you're done. 33 cfe is not compressed in a 22 Nosler and there are reports of 3700 + feet per second just by switching it over to the Hagar brass with a bigger bolt face.
I'm certain there's more room to go in my rifle but I've have never pushed it over 33 grains of cfe223 with 55s.
 
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Originally Posted By: JDF_GSPIf the tables were turned, I wouldn't care. Like I said, neither of the aforementioned cartridges are near and dear to my heart. I just look at things analytically and comment on what I find.
As I stated you better knock 60-70 feet per second off your figuring cuz that's with a 24-inch Barrel.
 
Hagar brass with a bigger bolt face is not the same cartridge as the 22 Nosler, that would be the 22 NXS that the guys on here are developing (in my opinion, the 22 NXS is a great option). I am not exactly sure where you are going with that... ? If that type of argument is in bounds, I could respond by saying that if you took a 224 valkyrie case, elongate it to 45mm, slap the 0.473 bolt face and ackley improve the shoulder and it would be WWAAAAAAYYYY faster than the 22 Nosler. So there.
 
I guess I should say that i'm sorry I do not agree with you, because it appears as though agreeing with you would be the only answer you would accept.
 
Originally Posted By: JDF_GSPHagar brass with a bigger bolt face is not the same cartridge as the 22 Nosler, that would be the 22 NXS that the guys on here are developing (in my opinion, the 22 NXS is a great option). I am not exactly sure where you are going with that... ? If that type of argument is in bounds, I could respond by saying that if you took a 224 valkyrie case, elongate it to 45mm, slap the 0.473 bolt face and ackley improve the shoulder and it would be WWAAAAAAYYYY faster than the 22 Nosler. So there.
First of all it is the exact same chamber you just change the bolt face. It's done with the same reamer. What I'm talking about is what they call the nosgar you are talking about the nxs. The point is there's room for more powder and room for me to put more pressure in my 22 Nosler. I just haven't done it. The speed and accuracy was there with 33 grains so I just stopped.
 
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The NXS is not the same as what you describe. The NXS is a full size Hagar case necked to 22 and run into a 22 Nosler die with no shoulder movement and no trimming unlike using it in a 22 Nosler chamber where both are required. The capacity on my 22-NXS is 37.3 grains. Also the NXS runs at higher pressure than either of the two subjects being compared here.

Greg

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22 NOSLER 22 NOSGAR 22-NXS
 
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Originally Posted By: varminter .223Originally Posted By: JDF_GSPHagar brass with a bigger bolt face is not the same cartridge as the 22 Nosler, that would be the 22 NXS that the guys on here are developing (in my opinion, the 22 NXS is a great option). I am not exactly sure where you are going with that... ? If that type of argument is in bounds, I could respond by saying that if you took a 224 valkyrie case, elongate it to 45mm, slap the 0.473 bolt face and ackley improve the shoulder and it would be WWAAAAAAYYYY faster than the 22 Nosler. So there.
First of all it is the exact same chamber you just change the bolt face. It's done with the same reamer. What I'm talking about is what they call the nosgar you are talking about the nxs. The point is there's room for more powder and room for me to put more pressure in my 22 Nosler. I just haven't done it. The speed and accuracy was there with 33 grains so I just stopped.

By my personal measurement the use of the Hagar to produce NOSGAR brass decreases case capacity. The 22 N brass is VERY thin on cross section compared to the Hagar. This is one reason why the Hagar can be run a bit higher on the pressure curve. plus less damage to the rims as things get squashed by that hour glass head.

Greg
 
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