Wounded critters.......

W

William Suter

Well-known member
Talking to a buddy this morning about a guy shooting at the club. He was shooting a new Stevens rifle. It was shooting what I consider patterns instead of groups. He was keeping them in a bull but the bull was maybe 8" diameter. He said not very good but good enough to hunt with. Being the rifle chairman at my club I'm out there a lot and see this a lot also. Just made me think, between new shooters with new rifles and shooter that settle for 8" groups, I wonder how many animals are wounded in the course of a year? We all make mistakes. If you hunt enough its going to happen. I'm not going to say its never happened to me but I will say I have helped track more wounded critters than I have ever wounded or lost myself. I would prefer to completely miss a critter than wound it. I spend enough time with my rifles that if I make a bad shot, its on me, not my rifle.

Some will think and say, coyotes gotta eat. Yes they do.. But even a coyote with a hole blown through him and his guts on fire from a bad shot deserves better. I'm not trying to pass judgement on anyone and think I'm better than but I practice and practice a lot. Like I said if I make a bad shot I want to be sure it was me and not my equipment. Maybe my attitude is because I hate hate hate tracking a wounded animal. I also feel we owe the critters we hunt a quick clean kill. Spend some time with your firearms. Make them and yourself a better hunter. Make humane shots on game animals. Don't take shots beyond your capabilities. It will reward you in the long run...........and be safe!!!

Ramblings of an old fart.
 
I’m all about ethical kills on game animals, but if I waited for the perfect shot on coyotes I’d probably kill 25% of what I kill. I take whatever shot is offered and use enough gun to put them down or leave me a seriously easy tracking job. Even perfect shots have had me tracking, easy tracking but tracking nonetheless.
I don’t look at coyotes as a valuable resource, I look at them with all intent to make them extinct. I’m failing miserably at that job too. There is no “leave some for seed” down here, it’s kill as many as you can. All I can seem to do is knock back the population some to allow other animals to prosper a little more during the time they are dropping or hatching.
Y’all do realize they used to use poison back in the day to reduce the population?
 
I had an AR that shot 3-4" groups. That killed me. I can't imagine being statisfied with 8". Went through 3 scopes thinking it was an optics problem until one day I ran out of the ammo that I'd been using. I had some heavier stuff so I fired it, thinking what the heck. The rifle went from 3-4" to 3/4" groups. Went from 55 to 62 grains. What a difference 7 grains makes. It now shoots 69 grain bullets consistently under 3/4" at 100 yards. Maybe gently, or not so gently, suggest to him to try some different ammo.
 
I won't hunt with a rifle if it's not capable of shooting Sub MOA, now if I screw up it's on me not the rifle. Recently I had the misfortune of CHOOSING the wrong ammo and that won't happen again. If WE are going to kill it, then that's what we should do as clean and quick as possible. IMO
 
The word "ethical" pro or con is an interesting mindset. Anyone pro or con. Can argue what that word means to THEM in a totality or truth. Is it ethical to even hunt for sport? Is it? As for wounding an animal then tracking it for a long way. To put it out of it's misery. The "ethical" thought of even shooting that animal. Is up to how we each believe it to be. Some hunters after wounding an animal. Give it their best to track it down. Other hunters do not spend the time to do so. Does that make them "non-ethical". To me the answer is no. IMO, hunting predators is always for sport. Unless that hunter is trying to take out a pet or livestock attacker/killer. Or it is because of his/her lively hood. As for a few examples of many examples. When I have wounded a predator. I do track it & will finish it off. Other times I wounded a predator. I did not waste my time. One reason being. Was during harsh Winter conditions. Because I walked a long way. Shot & wounded a coyote. Then had that coyote get up & run father away. My hands being so cold & stiff. I could barely move my fingers. So I did not track. But worked my way back to my truck. To save my hands from severe frostbite. I'll save my hands over being "ethical" to any coyote, any day.
 
Over the years I've killed a lot of game with rifles that wouldn't shoot MOA groups. You just have to stay within the limitation of the weapon your using. A rifle that shoots 4" groups a 100 yards will work fine for deer if the owner can put the first shot where it counts and stays within the capabilities of the rifle.

I've watched a lot of ducks land in the decoys while looking for a downed bird. Any bird I can't find gets added to the limit. I am dogless now so make every effort to hunt and only take shots where I know I can recover birds.

Wounded coyotes get every bit of respect as a wounded deer. I grew up when game was meat on the table, and fur was a paycheck.
 
I use to hunt with a buddy of mine. He is an avid skeet shooter and is very good at it but.........he's a horrible deer hunter. He wounds more deer in a season than anyone I ever hunted with. But, he won't practice with his rifle. The last deer he shot with me with him was wounded. We tracked that deer what seemed forever. With out exaggerating at least a couple of miles and we never did find it. That bothers me knowing that deer was probably supper for a pack of coyotes. Needless to say, we don't hunt together anymore and he still doesn't practice with his rifles.
 
William, I know someone like that except with turkeys. He wanted me to take him once and I agreed as long as he used my setup. He refused so he didn’t get taken. He owns a $1500 shotgun and buys the cheapest Walmart shells and has never put it on paper.
Even if I take someone deer hunting with me they’ll use one of my rifles or they won’t go. We’ll have youth hunts where their mommas brings their gun they got for Christmas last year and I politely tell them to take it back because I already have a rifle set up for them.
I realize using my weapons won’t automatically result in a no tracking job, but that’s one factor out of the equation.
What’s even better is I know I can borrow a gun from one of my boys if needed and it will hit where aimed.
 
I watched a video this afternoon. It was hosted by Eric Cortina called Ethical Hunter Challenge. He had a steel life size deer with a 1 MOA bulls eye. You shot from 500yds in a hunting tip scenario. Basically prone with a bi-pod. One shot. Not the results you would think but then again, maybe so. Even though a lot of shots that would have got the job done, there were not that many first shot hits. He said if you couldn't hit the 1MOA bull you shouldn't be taking the shot. I'm not a long range hunter. Partly because I have old eyes and because I don't get to practice past 300yds at my club. That's our farthest target. Anything past 300 would just be a Hail Mary shot.

Anyway, it was an interesting video.
 
Having worked behind the gun counter at Bass Pro for 17 years, (since retired), I can't count how many guys would come in 1-2 days before leaving for a hunt and buy a new rifle and/or scope, and not go sight it in. They would rely on our bore-sighting only.

Or, the guy that comes in looking for '180gr 30-06' ammo. I would ask what kind, such as Barnes, Federal, etc, and the response was '180gr'.
 
William Suter said:
I watched a video this afternoon. It was hosted by Eric Cortina called Ethical Hunter Challenge. He had a steel life size deer with a 1 MOA bulls eye. You shot from 500yds in a hunting tip scenario. Basically prone with a bi-pod. One shot. Not the results you would think but then again, maybe so. Even though a lot of shots that would have got the job done, there were not that many first shot hits. He said if you couldn't hit the 1MOA bull you shouldn't be taking the shot. I'm not a long range hunter. Partly because I have old eyes and because I don't get to practice past 300yds at my club. That's our farthest target. Anything past 300 would just be a Hail Mary shot.

Anyway, it was an interesting video.
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I'm old with bad eyes to now. I have only shot at one animal in my life much past 250 yds. Rangefinder said 330 yds and only took the shot to say I did. 300 yds is normally my max but I live out west, Central Oregon and have little problem getting within around 250 yds of a game animal.
 
crapshoot said:
Check out Eric Cortinas ethical hunter challenge on the Utubes.
1moa target @500 yrds cold bore shot.
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Thing I don't get is one minute of angle at 100yds is one inch. Not to hard to get. But one minute of angle at 500 yds is 5". Lot of guy's won't hunt if the rifle won't go one inch at 100 yds but think five inch's at 500yds is great. Wind blows ya off a couple inch's more than you counted on, no sweat. Still shooting 7" group.
 
crapshoot said:
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That was pretty good! 5 or 6 competitive shooter's with custom competitive rifle and one missed the deer completely and none hit the target. Now I know that hitting a target that small at that distance it somewhat harder than hard and I also know having an aiming point to shoot at makes a huge difference the farther away you get. A live animal doesn't have a built in aiming point! Then to I suspect that at 500 yds a one inch aiming point get's pretty much wiped out with pretty much any cross wire. I suspect that had the aiming point been about 5", they all would have done better. No doubt they got close, closer than I think I would have done, but close only counts in horse shoes, handgranades and SAC missals!
 
K22-hornet said:
Having worked behind the gun counter at Bass Pro for 17 years, (since retired), I can't count how many guys would come in 1-2 days before leaving for a hunt and buy a new rifle and/or scope, and not go sight it in. They would rely on our bore-sighting only.
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I spent a lot of time in a gunsmith's shop while in school and boy, does that bring back a lot of memories. Then they can't understand why they can't go out and shoot a deer @ 300 (or more) yards.

Excellent demonstration, Lance. Might be a lot less crippled animals out there if it was required viewing to get a hunting license. :ROFLMAO:

Shooting 1 MOA @ 500 yards is a lot different than shooting 1 MOA @ 100, as alluded to above. Wind and mirage have a huge effect @ longer ranges. Not only does the wind affect POI, the mirage carries the image of the target as seen by the shooter with it. A fast mirage means larger aiming compensation needed than a slow moving mirage. Always hold into the mirage. Nothing to it :ROFLMAO: .

Yeah, a bit more to it than that, but it's not surprising that only one shooter managed to hit the MOA POA, especially cold bore. Watch the video and pay attention to the conditions when the shot broke. What breeze there was came from 9 o'clock, but more importantly, it varied from dead calm to what, 5 mph or a little more??? Note that the mirage runs L->R with the wind, which appears to be a full value wind. When wind is calm, mirage boils. Mirage (seen as heat waves) carries the image of aiming point with it, so in a boiling mirage, the target is actually lower than it appears to the shooter; 9 o'clock mirage will carry image to the right.

An interesting explanation of READING THE MIRAGE
 
Growing up in a shotgun deer state, back in the day you’d be considered a darn good shot if you could shoot an 8” group at 100 yards with any rifled slug but yet 100 yard shots were pretty common. Then you had to factor in the part about the deer running by at 30mph to boot. Everybody’s life experiences are different and play a factor in what they consider to be ethical.
 
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