To Post, Or Not To Post, That Is The Question???

Originally Posted By: J Galt
I’m in as an investor. As long as the plan means that the site migrates and stays up to date, and controls what it hosts. As long as the plan is moderately sensible. I guess that makes 4 investors in a short time, so the idea that there is no interest (I think the number is 5-10) is nearly debunked. Just need a few more.

nearly debunked? just need a few more?

maybe you missed this. lol
Quote:
Another thing is fundraising, once again, anything will help, if we can get 100 members to donate 500.00 we are getting close... I'd gladly donate 500-1000 as long as it's a for sure deal.
 
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotOriginally Posted By: J Galt
I’m in as an investor. As long as the plan means that the site migrates and stays up to date, and controls what it hosts. As long as the plan is moderately sensible. I guess that makes 4 investors in a short time, so the idea that there is no interest (I think the number is 5-10) is nearly debunked. Just need a few more.

nearly debunked? just need a few more?

maybe you missed this. lol
Quote:
Another thing is fundraising, once again, anything will help, if we can get 100 members to donate 500.00 we are getting close... I'd gladly donate 500-1000 as long as it's a for sure deal.


Depending on how things progress, I would personally cover for 10 members because I like this place, and it is valuable... I have NO more money than most, I have 6 little guys that could use that $$$ more than you guys here, but to me genuinely keeping a good place around needs to happen, it has to happen, I would like to see my kids gain info from here someday.

It's exactly like J Galt said, why gravitate to Facebook, Instagram or YouTube, when they clearly do not support us? I have too because it's where my customer base comes from, it's where my interest comes from, but this place could grow, it could literally become a Snipershide for Predators, Firearms, Gear, Videos, Podcast Platforms, video platforms etc, etc, So much information could be based right outta this place, if people would stop bitching about it being already dead, people with over 4K posts ta boot.

It's like they want to see it go away because they've had some bad experiences. That's just dumb, have a good head on your shoulders, get over it, everyone has [beeep] dealings once in a while, quit being so negative, Stick together for cryin out loud, and let's get this deal figured out.

 
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotOriginally Posted By: J Galt
I’m in as an investor. As long as the plan means that the site migrates and stays up to date, and controls what it hosts. As long as the plan is moderately sensible. I guess that makes 4 investors in a short time, so the idea that there is no interest (I think the number is 5-10) is nearly debunked. Just need a few more.

nearly debunked? just need a few more?

maybe you missed this. lol
Quote:
Another thing is fundraising, once again, anything will help, if we can get 100 members to donate 500.00 we are getting close... I'd gladly donate 500-1000 as long as it's a for sure deal.


I think it was you who said the limit was 5. We were at 4 until skinney added 9. Now 13. A bit over your number of projected supporters….

I’ll add a total of 20. We are now at 32. Way over (roughly 60%) your expert max estimate. I suppose you will laugh it off and shrug, and continue to bask in the glory of being yet another person to benefit from someone else’s productive work while complaining the entire time. Where I come from, being known as a know-it-all complainer provides the necessary definition of one’s character.

For everyone else, it can be fixed with the right group of people demonstrating interest. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
 
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Originally Posted By: J GaltOriginally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotOriginally Posted By: J Galt
I’m in as an investor. As long as the plan means that the site migrates and stays up to date, and controls what it hosts. As long as the plan is moderately sensible. I guess that makes 4 investors in a short time, so the idea that there is no interest (I think the number is 5-10) is nearly debunked. Just need a few more.

nearly debunked? just need a few more?

maybe you missed this. lol
Quote:
Another thing is fundraising, once again, anything will help, if we can get 100 members to donate 500.00 we are getting close... I'd gladly donate 500-1000 as long as it's a for sure deal.


I think it was you who said the limit was 5. We were at 4 until skinney added 9. Now 13. A bit over your number of projected supporters….

I’ll add a total of 20. We are now at 32. Way over (roughly 60%) your expert max estimate. I suppose you will laugh it off and shrug, and continue to bask in the glory of being yet another person to benefit from someone else’s productive work while complaining the entire time. Where I come from, being known as a know-it-all complainer provides the necessary definition of one’s character.

For everyone else, it can be fixed with the right group of people demonstrating interest. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

JGalt... 4... 5... 9... 13... 20... 32... and 100! Sounds like Biden/Harris math lessons. You've had how many screen names over the years? Why? Only posted about thirty times? Again, why? That's a lot of trouble to sneak around the system so many times to only post a few times in all those years. I'm trying to figure why you are so interested in PM surviving and yet have shown so little interest in posting or supporting the site over the years with constructive content. Your calling another member out as you did sorta sounds like the pot calling the kettle black.
 
Originally Posted By: J Galt We were at 4 until skinney added 9. Now 13. A bit over your number of projected supporters….

I’ll add a total of 20. We are now at 32.

hold on a minute there mr Galt (and the other numerous aliases you have had through the years here.)

you'll add 20 WHAT? i'm a little confused on what you would be adding.

and no, i'm not wanting to see PM go by the wayside. it's been a good ride here. maybe you guys can make it work. i honestly hope you can.
 
Hey GC. Good questions. I’ve spent a lot of time on this site and sites like it over the years. Clicked it many times, which is one form of support. The information shared by many here is valuable to me and my hunting partner who happens to be my little brother.

The second reason is I spend a lot more time reading than writing. I find that mostly what I have to say has been said many times and better by many others.

The peripheral reasons are that the political climate has changed so much in the last 5 years that I don’t want to see opportunities like this disappear for people that share my values. Hunting and rural living are being eradicated, and it bugs me. Also, watching and being silent except for voting hasn’t worked, so now I’ll make my position known.

As far as the math goes, skinney=10, I said I’m good to cover 20. And I think two others said go. Think that still adds up to 32. I shoulda been more clear.
 
I was assuming there would be some people here that would be willing to help support the cause. I believe there are more out there once they read this post and understand some of the benefits.
 
Alright fellas, here is what I'm thinking... You all let me know your thoughts, and I really wish the Admins would post here also, I'm hoping to get some legit numbers on paper in the next couple weeks so the higher ups can decide what route this project can take. I have went out of my way to locate some very knowledgeable people on the subject of a revamp, and was on the phone over an hour lastnight outside my daughters volleyball game discussing options with a potential "upgrader" so here it goes.

ONE, I believe we need to keep all the legacy info and have it transferred to a possible new platform IF the price is doable, there is just too much info, and work others have put into this place to wipe the slate, IF not maybe a facelift to the UBB forum is all it would take.

TWO, Looking at my YouTube, Instagram and Website Analytics, 90% of my traffic comes from 18-45 year old males on a "MOBILE" device... This forum needs to be mobile friendly, so that the younger gen's have access to it at their fingertips, it's just how it is. I think this one "simple" upgrade would make a significant increase in members and traffic, and eventually committed members.

THREE, having the ability similar to snipershide where you can like, add an emoji to posts will help people feel more content or ambitious in posting, knowing people are paying attention and actually liking what they present.

FOUR, having the ability to have threads that could generate revenue for the forum itself, such as a "pay to play" thread, once again similar to snipershide where memebers pay for access to a specific thread that may have certain professional guests, training, info. etc.

FIVE, of course the more modern facelift, I know graphics designers, some guys here have some wicked pics that could even be used for certain things I'm sure. Just getting the older 90's style forum look, updated to a modern professional looking wicked site would bring a lot of new interest, and would certainly allow those who have been here forever look at their new home with a very refreshing and respectful experience.

SIX, do "I" have to do this? Nope. I've personally got enough on my plate, trust me, But I believe "WE" should, I've had 3 people tell me why not just buy it, or start your own thing, it would benefit you more... ANNND it would, 100% it would. BUT once again I like this place, the people, even those who don't like what we do, it's their choice to hate it, and it's their choice to not like me. I am a firm believe no matter how big one gets or "thinks" he gets, there's always roots, there's always help in the beginning and along the way. That's this place, that's you guys. Not everyone forgets that.

Just sayin.
 
I don’t know what software/platform some other forum sites use that I visit on occasion, but they do allow posting of pictures directly from phone gallery and the threads have features at the bottom of posts to like and posts emoji face responses like you mention. Uploading photos direct from phone gallery is really nice. The general layout of those sites is fairly similar to here, but a touch more modern. You have the option to be a contributing member on those as well. By being so, you earn more privileges, one that I can think of is # of post you can create in the classifieds. Free members can still post and create threads, but are limited compared to a paying member on creating new ads.

Those forum sites are Accurate Shooter and Long Range Hunting if you want to browse for ideas.
 
skinny,
What you say makes good sense. It is ambitious and admirable and if you can make something positive happen here that is awesome. With all that said, what I am not seeing is anything from the powers in control of PM chiming in and along on this thread. Which begs the question, do you have permission to actually do anything with PM? Unless I missed it the Admin here hasn't stepped up and said they are willing to step aside and/or support any of this, or, actually sell PM outright. Or have they done that and I just missed it somewhere? I could have missed it, apologies if it sailed over my head somewhere in the thread. Without knowing the stance of the folks holding the power buttons it is hard to get too worked up for change here.
 
Originally Posted By: AdamTI don’t know what software/platform some other forum sites use that I visit on occasion, but they do allow posting of pictures directly from phone gallery and the threads have features at the bottom of posts to like and posts emoji face responses like you mention. Uploading photos direct from phone gallery is really nice. The general layout of those sites is fairly similar to here, but a touch more modern. You have the option to be a contributing member on those as well. By being so, you earn more privileges, one that I can think of is # of post you can create in the classifieds. Free members can still post and create threads, but are limited compared to a paying member on creating new ads.

Those forum sites are Accurate Shooter and Long Range Hunting if you want to browse for ideas.

This is another great point and should 100% be used in structuring something new. Thanks for posting this, as I'm sure we all would agree, technically those who put more in, should get more out, and be recognized for such.

Originally Posted By: GCskinny,
What you say makes good sense. It is ambitious and admirable and if you can make something positive happen here that is awesome. With all that said, what I am not seeing is anything from the powers in control of PM chiming in and along on this thread. Which begs the question, do you have permission to actually do anything with PM? Unless I missed it the Admin here hasn't stepped up and said they are willing to step aside and/or support any of this, or, actually sell PM outright. Or have they done that and I just missed it somewhere? I could have missed it, apologies if it sailed over my head somewhere in the thread. Without knowing the stance of the folks holding the power buttons it is hard to get too worked up for change here.

You're also 100% correct, I've only spoken with Jeff for about 30-40 minutes a couple weeks ago, him and I have always gotten along very well, considering we've never met. He's always been very respectful to me, and I would like to think I have been to him also.

I got just a brief amount of info from him, and informed him there are things I could do on my end that may be of benefit to this forum, right now those things are between us, nothing real secretive and nothing I won't tell you guys, but I don't want to say I'll do it, then not have it happen...

SO we will see, I'm going to try chat with Jeff again in a week or two when I get some more info. IF they WANT to do something great... IF they don't, there is nothing I can do, and unfortunately it is what it is. AND per my last convo with Jeff, things are not looking good, at all.
 
Originally Posted By: skinneyAlright fellas, here is what I'm thinking... You all let me know your thoughts, and I really wish the Admins would post here also, I'm hoping to get some legit numbers on paper in the next couple weeks so the higher ups can decide what route this project can take. I have went out of my way to locate some very knowledgeable people on the subject of a revamp, and was on the phone over an hour lastnight outside my daughters volleyball game discussing options with a potential "upgrader" so here it goes.

ONE, I believe we need to keep all the legacy info and have it transferred to a possible new platform IF the price is doable, there is just too much info, and work others have put into this place to wipe the slate, IF not maybe a facelift to the UBB forum is all it would take.

TWO, Looking at my YouTube, Instagram and Website Analytics, 90% of my traffic comes from 18-45 year old males on a "MOBILE" device... This forum needs to be mobile friendly, so that the younger gen's have access to it at their fingertips, it's just how it is. I think this one "simple" upgrade would make a significant increase in members and traffic, and eventually committed members.

THREE, having the ability similar to snipershide where you can like, add an emoji to posts will help people feel more content or ambitious in posting, knowing people are paying attention and actually liking what they present.




So I pretty closely agree with all of this. And have also been thinking about the concerns GC has spotlighted. Some of the thoughts, and conversations about this I have been having...

I know a few guys - guys I've worked with for decades - that are more than capable of doing the migration and setting up the new site. I floated it, to two of them, over German sausage and beers at lunch last week... One is a back end guru (the data migration), the other a front end savant (setting up the new site).

The good news, is they floated back $$ numbers, way, way lower than $50K.

The bad news, is neither one of them are willing to touch it. In a nutshell, they have no qualms about the migration of legacy data and setting up a whiz-bang modern new site that's mobile centric, has likes and all the other newest bells and whistles. But, they both said their experience, has been the hand off after that, is way more hassle than they want to deal with. And maybe where that $50k number is coming from. They just want to get the "move" done - and have nothing more to do with it. Questions about how to admin, maintain and run the site after that, they want nothing to do with.

And, yes. To me, this would be about attracting a new audience. A younger, more tech savvy, phone centric, more energetic and enthusiastic audience. That won't sit well with a lot of the old timers. But, there aren't enough old timers left to move the meter anymore, frankly...

These users are MOTIVATED to PARTICIPATE by simple things like being a responsive platform (screen size and orientation aware), Likes, one click sharing to social media platforms, etc., etc., etc. All the stuff this rickety old UBB crap doesn't support.

And, YES! Preserving the historical information is everything. Without it, there is no logical reason to continue the "predatormasters.com" brand. Way, way, WAY cheaper and easier to just start anew.

And, yes. My opinion, the "new" site has to make money. Do not get anchored into the non-profit goop. I see no useful purpose for that organizational structure to go forward.

Almost lastly... Let's be honest. As it currently sits, this place isn't worth SQUAT for revenue. If the current ownership doesn't want to let it go cheap, then, screw it. Eff them and move on with a completely different and new site.

And, lastly... Yeah, Devil is in the details and none of those are clear yet. But, if it looks viable, I'm in.

- DAA
 
Addendum. On the non-profit stuff.

I recently accepted a BOD position on a 501 organized forum (off road centric, not related to our subject matter here). It makes total sense, on THAT forum. The mission there is public awareness, education and advocacy on public land access and responsible use issues. We organize events to generate funds to direct towards lobbying efforts and hands-on work aligned to those issues.

From what I can see though, it makes zero sense, on THIS forum. This place needs to pay for itself and a little more to make it worthwhile for those putting up the $ and time to keep it going. I would never expect to make much on this, as a going concern. But I wouldn't stick around as a $ contributor and stakeholder if it was costing me $ annually to keep it going, either.

- DAA
 
Tell me about more media friendly.

I'm old with limited computer skills and have the cheapest Low-IQ smart phone I could buy. Today I sat at the rifle range and read and/or posted on three forums with nary a problem. As far as posting pics from a phone, I wanted to show a fellow at the range a picture and it took me five minutes of paging through my phone to find it. It is so much easier to catalog my photos on the computer and store my posting photos on a hosting sight, it works slik for me. I never have a problem.

I would love to have someone explain what is involved with upgrading this sight that would make it more interesting for the younger generation.
 
Originally Posted By: AWS

I would love to have someone explain what is involved with upgrading this sight that would make it more interesting for the younger generation. It would definitely take dedicated man hours to moderate and keep a site like this up to date. As far as the can’t pull up site post. Probably would be 20 times more traffic if a person could pick up any laptop and pull the site up without trying to clear cookies that doesn’t work. Apple products is the only way I can load it.
 
Originally Posted By: AWSTell me about more media friendly.

I'm old with limited computer skills and have the cheapest Low-IQ smart phone I could buy. Today I sat at the rifle range and read and/or posted on three forums with nary a problem. As far as posting pics from a phone, I wanted to show a fellow at the range a picture and it took me five minutes of paging through my phone to find it. It is so much easier to catalog my photos on the computer and store my posting photos on a hosting sight, it works slik for me. I never have a problem.

I would love to have someone explain what is involved with upgrading this sight that would make it more interesting for the younger generation.

Most "younger Generations" don't have and will not have the cheapest smart phone, they'll be the newest iphone or samsung which are well over 1K. They will have apps, they will have the majority of their photos stored on their phone. They will post photos from their phone. Their phone to them, is kinda what your computer is to you, it's what they use, and ultimately what they store everything on. My Samsung has 1TB of HD space, that's a crazy CRAZY amount of short video clips and pictures that can be stored at my fingertips. It's all about quick easy access. Give them the flickr app, and an updated forum, easy peasy, photos directly from the field, to here... eliminating going to the computer.

Like I said, it may be easy for you, me as well posting from my computer, primarily cause that's my editing platform for photos and vids, BUT stats are pretty rock solid evidence what most people are using to access social media.

Now apply that to here.

That's just one aspect.
 
Dave- in regards to the non-profit not making sense….

Originally the thought was that this site would focus on education, advocacy for our sport (which many states have and are restricting out of existence) and providing college scholarships (which we did for a while) to students seeking an education in wildlife or natural resource fields of study. It was thought that PM would serve as the Ducks Unlimited or Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation for Predator Hunting.

Granted, that was never fully realized. Probably because there were to many differing opinions (similar to what I’’m seeing in thisthread) and conflicting personalities.

Reworking the website is one thing. Reworking the organizational model is something else. Most of what I am reading here has to do with reworking the forum (look and functionality) and not the organizational (legal and financial) structure.
 
Originally Posted By: YellowhammerDave- in regards to the non-profit not making sense….

Originally the thought was that this site would focus on education, advocacy for our sport (which many states have and are restricting out of existence) and providing college scholarships (which we did for a while) to students seeking an education in wildlife or natural resource fields of study. It was thought that PM would serve as the Ducks Unlimited or Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation for Predator Hunting.

Granted, that was never fully realized. Probably because there were to many differing opinions (similar to what I’’m seeing in thisthread) and conflicting personalities.

Reworking the website is one thing. Reworking the organizational model is something else. Most of what I am reading here has to do with reworking the forum (look and functionality) and not the organizational (legal and financial) structure.

No doubt. All true.

I guess what I am saying, is if I were going to contribute $500 to help make this happen, I'd vote for not making any effort to preserve the current legal and financial structure. Part of the deal, for me, would be jettisoning all of that.

Just my opinion, but I think this place needs to turn at least a small profit to make all this work.

I know just enough about the non profit structure, to prefer, for this site, that if there are surplus funds generated, they are treated as revenue.

But I can see the problems with actually pulling that off with a crowd source deal, too.

- DAA
 
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