Thermal Units Competing with FLIR?
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SkyPup
New member
Originally Posted By: Gman757
These posts are sort of amusing if you think about how quickly WE have all become spoiled. Just a few years ago it was Red Lights.....then Gen3.....then.....
WOW.......THERMAL!!!!......the PS32 was magic.
Now it's gotta be a HD Quality "count the hairs" image or it just won't do the job. LOL
I plead "guilty" too......
Gman, now I am thinking that I made a big mistake with the 350 hogs and 60 coyotes I killed last year on my property, I should have waited for something better to come out?
These posts are sort of amusing if you think about how quickly WE have all become spoiled. Just a few years ago it was Red Lights.....then Gen3.....then.....
WOW.......THERMAL!!!!......the PS32 was magic.
Now it's gotta be a HD Quality "count the hairs" image or it just won't do the job. LOL
I plead "guilty" too......
Gman, now I am thinking that I made a big mistake with the 350 hogs and 60 coyotes I killed last year on my property, I should have waited for something better to come out?
SkyPup
New member
Haha, I sure do wish I had something better than this, eight dead hogs shot all by my lonely self in the backyard, if only I had waited until after next years 2016 Shot Show to get something good, the latest and the greatest, instead of having to put up with such a lousy kit....
BTW, my view though the Elcan was 6X what the video view is, up close and personal, but it could have been so much better if I had waited and gotten something else much better....
http://www.phossil.com/thom/Night%20Vision/FLIR%20T70/8%20Hogs.mp4
I'm pissed I have to use such crummy gear!
Just think, I could have had twenty of the latest greatest ATN X-Sights with the awesome 1 Gz Obsidian core instead! But now I'll be accused of selling X-Sights.....
BTW, my view though the Elcan was 6X what the video view is, up close and personal, but it could have been so much better if I had waited and gotten something else much better....
http://www.phossil.com/thom/Night%20Vision/FLIR%20T70/8%20Hogs.mp4
I'm pissed I have to use such crummy gear!
Just think, I could have had twenty of the latest greatest ATN X-Sights with the awesome 1 Gz Obsidian core instead! But now I'll be accused of selling X-Sights.....
Insta Alert is ok, but if you gave me two thermal scanners side by side in the same package. One had the LS64 insta alert image, the other had white/black hot image that an IRH MK2 puts out, I'd probably take the IRH. For my use and in my typical environments (0-30 deg F) with higher humidity the BAE core processes the image much better consistently than the FLIR thermals. I have not experienced one situation yet where the IRH washed out.
SkyPup
New member
dh223, if you don't mind me asking, exactly what is it that you have been night hunting with thermals in California?
If I am not mistaken, I understand it is illegal to use a hand held scanner or a weapon mounted scope to hunt at night as they are prohibited, even on private land.
If I am not mistaken, I understand it is illegal to use a hand held scanner or a weapon mounted scope to hunt at night as they are prohibited, even on private land.
Skypup, your endless shilling of FLIR products is incredibly annoying. People like the information about FLIR. But, you have no credibility when you illogically try to insert your PRO-Flir comments onto every single post. Your absurd statements that you have shot plenty of animals with your devices, do not mean they are the best value for the money or the right choice for other people. But, you don't care about that. You just keep shilling your FLIR products. I think FLIR would be a little ashamed if they saw how transparent and dishonest your tactics are to promote their products. All I can say, is that it makes me want their products less, not more. You are really, really bad at sales.
To answer your question. There are two sections that deal with the subject of night hunting non game animals. One section outlaws ancient active 1950 style IR scopes. The other is in the section on lights. It bans the use of nightvision devices when used with IR light sources. Technically, this makes hunting with a PVS14 illegal because it has an IR light. But, it does not outlaw thermal devices.
To answer your question. There are two sections that deal with the subject of night hunting non game animals. One section outlaws ancient active 1950 style IR scopes. The other is in the section on lights. It bans the use of nightvision devices when used with IR light sources. Technically, this makes hunting with a PVS14 illegal because it has an IR light. But, it does not outlaw thermal devices.
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norbs
New member
Originally Posted By: dh223Skypup, your endless shilling of FLIR products is incredibly annoying. People like the information about FLIR. But, you have no credibility when you illogically try to insert your PRO-Flir comments onto every single post. Your absurd statements that you have shot plenty of animals with your devices, do not mean they are the best value for the money or the right choice for other people. But, you don't care about that. You just keep shilling your FLIR products. I think FLIR would be a little ashamed if they saw how transparent and dishonest your tactics are to promote their products. All I can say, is that it makes me want their products less, not more. You are really, really bad at sales.
To answer your question. There are two sections that deal with the subject of night hunting non game animals. One section outlaws ancient active 1950 style IR scopes. The other is in the section on lights. It bans the use of nightvision devices when used with IR light sources. Technically, this makes hunting with a PVS14 illegal because it has an IR light. But, it does not outlaw thermal devices.
What if you had something similar to a PVS 14 but it didn't have an onboard IR?
To answer your question. There are two sections that deal with the subject of night hunting non game animals. One section outlaws ancient active 1950 style IR scopes. The other is in the section on lights. It bans the use of nightvision devices when used with IR light sources. Technically, this makes hunting with a PVS14 illegal because it has an IR light. But, it does not outlaw thermal devices.
What if you had something similar to a PVS 14 but it didn't have an onboard IR?
SkyPup
New member
Originally Posted By: dh223Skypup, your endless shilling of FLIR products is incredibly annoying. People like the information about FLIR. But, you have no credibility when you illogically try to insert your PRO-Flir comments onto every single post. Your absurd statements that you have shot plenty of animals with your devices, do not mean they are the best value for the money or the right choice for other people. But, you don't care about that. You just keep shilling your FLIR products. I think FLIR would be a little ashamed if they saw how transparent and dishonest your tactics are to promote their products. All I can say, is that it makes me want their products less, not more. You are really, really bad at sales.
I am really really bad at sales since I don't ever sell anything whether or not they are the best choice for other people or the even best value for other people, that is something they would have to be responsible for, not me.
Glad to hear that I do really make you want their products even more, that is a most excellent reason for you to purchase them....If I mention anything else about all my FLIR gear, maybe you'll get two of some other products just because you fell so strongly about it all....
Now go out there and get one of their products and tell us all about them! Better yet, tell us about all the products you did not get so we all know about them too!
Please post some pics and videos of all your new "other" gear too so we can discuss whether or not your gear is the best value for other people and the right choice for other people too, that will be lots of fun!
I am really really bad at sales since I don't ever sell anything whether or not they are the best choice for other people or the even best value for other people, that is something they would have to be responsible for, not me.
Glad to hear that I do really make you want their products even more, that is a most excellent reason for you to purchase them....If I mention anything else about all my FLIR gear, maybe you'll get two of some other products just because you fell so strongly about it all....
Now go out there and get one of their products and tell us all about them! Better yet, tell us about all the products you did not get so we all know about them too!
Please post some pics and videos of all your new "other" gear too so we can discuss whether or not your gear is the best value for other people and the right choice for other people too, that will be lots of fun!
Gman757
Active member
Originally Posted By: wompaInsta Alert is ok, but if you gave me two thermal scanners side by side in the same package. One had the LS64 insta alert image, the other had white/black hot image that an IRH MK2 puts out, I'd probably take the IRH.
I agree that a clear image is great in a thermal. However, sometimes other factors like specific terrain characteristics, or WHAT you are hunting comes into play with some of these features. I just got back from stalking hogs in a field.....clearcut but knee to waist high intermittent brush. It is almost a safety concern with hogs up close at night when you are standing on the ground with them in the open. It was very comforting to be able to quick scan all around me with the LS64 and look for a RED return. The 2 that I saw are still in the field.....coyote bait now.
I agree that a clear image is great in a thermal. However, sometimes other factors like specific terrain characteristics, or WHAT you are hunting comes into play with some of these features. I just got back from stalking hogs in a field.....clearcut but knee to waist high intermittent brush. It is almost a safety concern with hogs up close at night when you are standing on the ground with them in the open. It was very comforting to be able to quick scan all around me with the LS64 and look for a RED return. The 2 that I saw are still in the field.....coyote bait now.
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doublecheese
New member
Wow, what happened here while I was away ?
I am at this forum to LEARN from others' experiences and also to help others as much as I can help. I agree with SkyPup but I also agree with dh223 too.
Nobody is a millionaire here ( I guess) Everybody is spending their hard earned dollars and we all have the right to choose the best. What SkyPup is trying to say that, there is no need for adventure, just go with a product that already has been proven over and over. And he may be right with that. But the new IR Patrol may also be good but it is still NOT out and with a brand new product, there are always problems.
Everybody's free to buy what ever they want .... But a Flir LS-XR will get the job done for you for sure. Even when the screen is washed out in some weather scenarios, the InstAlert will show the [beeep] hog anyway !!!
Now Lets get back to the subject guys.
I agree with Gman757's pictures and this is how a comparison should be done for all of us to understand.
The best method is to take a picture of the viewfinder with a camera or a phone, so that get the most correct outcome with our own eyes when we look at the topic from our computers. These DVR devices may interfere with the image quality ....
I will also try to take some pictures of some homes with my Flir T360 and Flir LS-XR and post it here soon
I am at this forum to LEARN from others' experiences and also to help others as much as I can help. I agree with SkyPup but I also agree with dh223 too.
Nobody is a millionaire here ( I guess) Everybody is spending their hard earned dollars and we all have the right to choose the best. What SkyPup is trying to say that, there is no need for adventure, just go with a product that already has been proven over and over. And he may be right with that. But the new IR Patrol may also be good but it is still NOT out and with a brand new product, there are always problems.
Everybody's free to buy what ever they want .... But a Flir LS-XR will get the job done for you for sure. Even when the screen is washed out in some weather scenarios, the InstAlert will show the [beeep] hog anyway !!!
Now Lets get back to the subject guys.
I agree with Gman757's pictures and this is how a comparison should be done for all of us to understand.
The best method is to take a picture of the viewfinder with a camera or a phone, so that get the most correct outcome with our own eyes when we look at the topic from our computers. These DVR devices may interfere with the image quality ....
I will also try to take some pictures of some homes with my Flir T360 and Flir LS-XR and post it here soon
SkyPup
New member
At least some people here OWN and USE their purchased equipment and can relate to how their OWNED equipment performs for them in the field and discuss same.
Other perhaps feel much stronger about talking about equipment they do not own or have any experience with and how good or bad it could be based on the manufacturers claims, what they read in a magazine ad, or what they saw somewhere on the internet.
I hope to get my LS-XR by next weekend and will compare it to my LS-64, my M-24, and my M-18 for scanning functionality in the field on wild hogs and coyotes.
Other perhaps feel much stronger about talking about equipment they do not own or have any experience with and how good or bad it could be based on the manufacturers claims, what they read in a magazine ad, or what they saw somewhere on the internet.
I hope to get my LS-XR by next weekend and will compare it to my LS-64, my M-24, and my M-18 for scanning functionality in the field on wild hogs and coyotes.
SkyPup
New member
Originally Posted By: Gman757Originally Posted By: wompaInsta Alert is ok, but if you gave me two thermal scanners side by side in the same package. One had the LS64 insta alert image, the other had white/black hot image that an IRH MK2 puts out, I'd probably take the IRH.
I agree that a clear image is great in a thermal. However, sometimes other factors like specific terrain characteristics, or WHAT you are hunting comes into play with some of these features. I just got back from stalking hogs in a field.....clearcut but knee to waist high intermittent brush. It is almost a safety concern with hogs up close at night when you are standing on the ground with them in the open. It was very comforting to be able to quick scan all around me with the LS64 and look for a RED return. The 2 that I saw are still in the field.....coyote bait now.
Haha, since I own numerous high quality hand held thermal scanners, I get to CHOOSE which one I would like to use for what I will be doing out at night and where I will be going.
Although I do really like the super powerful M-18 and helmet mounted M-24 for scanning very large acreages at night, I ALWAYS have my LS-64 or PS-32 with me specifically for using the InstaAlert feature since it is so successful in locating heat signatures with a minimal amount of active neural processing through my retinas.
Different strokes for different folks!
I agree that a clear image is great in a thermal. However, sometimes other factors like specific terrain characteristics, or WHAT you are hunting comes into play with some of these features. I just got back from stalking hogs in a field.....clearcut but knee to waist high intermittent brush. It is almost a safety concern with hogs up close at night when you are standing on the ground with them in the open. It was very comforting to be able to quick scan all around me with the LS64 and look for a RED return. The 2 that I saw are still in the field.....coyote bait now.
Haha, since I own numerous high quality hand held thermal scanners, I get to CHOOSE which one I would like to use for what I will be doing out at night and where I will be going.
Although I do really like the super powerful M-18 and helmet mounted M-24 for scanning very large acreages at night, I ALWAYS have my LS-64 or PS-32 with me specifically for using the InstaAlert feature since it is so successful in locating heat signatures with a minimal amount of active neural processing through my retinas.
Different strokes for different folks!
Skypup, why don't you go back and read the title to this thread? It is a thread discussing alternatives to FLIR. It is not a thread about how cool you are because you own things. You are just an old guy that has a lot of gear who has declared himself the defender of all things FLIR. If you think you are better than the rest of us because you own things, I pity you.
Norbs - technically night vision without IR is legal. Howevever, we have a big problem in CA. Section 2005 (c) is so poorly written that you could ask 10 different game wardens what it means and you would get 10 different answers. There is a high likelihood if you are stopped you would have your gear confiscated.
Norbs - technically night vision without IR is legal. Howevever, we have a big problem in CA. Section 2005 (c) is so poorly written that you could ask 10 different game wardens what it means and you would get 10 different answers. There is a high likelihood if you are stopped you would have your gear confiscated.
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SkyPup
New member
Originally Posted By: dh223Skypup, why don't you go back and read the title to this thread? It is a thread discussing alternatives to FLIR. It is not a thread about how cool you are because you own things. You are just an old guy that has a lot of gear who has declared himself the defender of all things FLIR. If you think you are better than the rest of us because you own things, I pity you.
Norbs - technically night vision without IR is legal. Howevever, we have a big problem in CA. Section 2005 (c) is so poorly written that you could ask 10 different game wardens what it means and you would get 10 different answers. There is a high likelihood if you are stopped you would have your gear confiscated.
dh223, I appreciate your pity that you have shared here publicly with all of us, we are very fortunate to have you either telling us what we should do or trying to censor whatever it is that we do do, or trying to psychoanalyse whatever it is that we do not do.
Your leadership on all these important issues being discussed is truly enlightening.
Norbs - technically night vision without IR is legal. Howevever, we have a big problem in CA. Section 2005 (c) is so poorly written that you could ask 10 different game wardens what it means and you would get 10 different answers. There is a high likelihood if you are stopped you would have your gear confiscated.
dh223, I appreciate your pity that you have shared here publicly with all of us, we are very fortunate to have you either telling us what we should do or trying to censor whatever it is that we do do, or trying to psychoanalyse whatever it is that we do not do.
Your leadership on all these important issues being discussed is truly enlightening.
Originally Posted By: SkyPupAt least some people here OWN and USE their purchased equipment and can relate to how their OWNED equipment performs for them in the field and discuss same.
Other perhaps feel much stronger about talking about equipment they do not own or have any experience with and how good or bad it could be based on the manufacturers claims, what they read in a magazine ad, or what they saw somewhere on the internet.
I hope to get my LS-XR by next weekend and will compare it to my LS-64, my M-24, and my M-18 for scanning functionality in the field on wild hogs and coyotes.
Sky Pup,
I enjoy reading about and seeing through the viewer images of the equipment you have and appreciate your comments about the capability of each piece of gear, but I gotta say that for a page or two here you have been over the top on the shilling and really [beeep] regarding any discussion of the capability of forthcoming gear - with the notable exception of the JUST arrived FLIR gear.
And yes some of the other options are new to the market, but FLIR's technology was once brand spanking new as well, with history measured in mere days, just like the IR gear.
Not all of us have the resources to own a wide selection of different units with different capabilities for shades of what amounts to the same purpose, a hobby, a pastime, fun. Even if we do have the resources we might not be too excited about tying up as much $'s in what amounts to optional tools for that hobby, pastime, fun. Personally, I cringe at the thought of dropping what, for a hobby or pastime, is a huge chunk of change that, with the pace of development, is racing it's way to obsolescence the day you pay for it and depreciating faster than Clinton can drop his pants. Worse yet is the thought of erring in the one or two significant purchases and ending up with the wrong unit or units, or one that is not as well suited to my individual requirements and usage (and let's face it, there is NO actual requirement, just a desire.)
Moreover, it is frustrating almost beyond tolerance not to be able to march down to the corner store and compare all or almost all units side by side to come up with an individual evaluation of what units would meet my own "requirements." To the point that I have thought about hopping on a plane and flying to a dealer who stocks every unit I'm interested.
So, long and short, no need to be [beeep] to forum members trying to wade through the pro's and con's of available choices in this fast evolving technology niche. We all want to stop cutting bait and fish, to [beeep] and get off the pot, it is just that for some of us the price of making an error is substantial, and the opportunity for a re-do may not exist.
JPK
Other perhaps feel much stronger about talking about equipment they do not own or have any experience with and how good or bad it could be based on the manufacturers claims, what they read in a magazine ad, or what they saw somewhere on the internet.
I hope to get my LS-XR by next weekend and will compare it to my LS-64, my M-24, and my M-18 for scanning functionality in the field on wild hogs and coyotes.
Sky Pup,
I enjoy reading about and seeing through the viewer images of the equipment you have and appreciate your comments about the capability of each piece of gear, but I gotta say that for a page or two here you have been over the top on the shilling and really [beeep] regarding any discussion of the capability of forthcoming gear - with the notable exception of the JUST arrived FLIR gear.
And yes some of the other options are new to the market, but FLIR's technology was once brand spanking new as well, with history measured in mere days, just like the IR gear.
Not all of us have the resources to own a wide selection of different units with different capabilities for shades of what amounts to the same purpose, a hobby, a pastime, fun. Even if we do have the resources we might not be too excited about tying up as much $'s in what amounts to optional tools for that hobby, pastime, fun. Personally, I cringe at the thought of dropping what, for a hobby or pastime, is a huge chunk of change that, with the pace of development, is racing it's way to obsolescence the day you pay for it and depreciating faster than Clinton can drop his pants. Worse yet is the thought of erring in the one or two significant purchases and ending up with the wrong unit or units, or one that is not as well suited to my individual requirements and usage (and let's face it, there is NO actual requirement, just a desire.)
Moreover, it is frustrating almost beyond tolerance not to be able to march down to the corner store and compare all or almost all units side by side to come up with an individual evaluation of what units would meet my own "requirements." To the point that I have thought about hopping on a plane and flying to a dealer who stocks every unit I'm interested.
So, long and short, no need to be [beeep] to forum members trying to wade through the pro's and con's of available choices in this fast evolving technology niche. We all want to stop cutting bait and fish, to [beeep] and get off the pot, it is just that for some of us the price of making an error is substantial, and the opportunity for a re-do may not exist.
JPK
SkyPup
New member
Appreciate your concerns, however what hobbies are you talking about?
I deal with serious professional land management problems on our perpetual Conservation Easement with the Nature Conservancy and the Conservation Trust on thousands of acres of land that require capital expenditures to protect the rare and endangered plants, animals, and terrestrial biota on our properties. As such, I provide the capital to make changes happen on these restricted properties.
I also provide similar services to State Parks, Department of Natural Resources, State Fish and Wildlife Officers, Sheriff Departments, and other public entities on tens of thousands of acres of endangered lands as well.
If there is some better way for me to rigorously maintain the high quality of land management practices that we follow with some new gear that is much much better than the gear I have invested in, please advise.
Perhaps you had me confused with some other wannabe weekend warrior like dh223?
I feel free to express my learned opinions without prior consideration of what contradicting other people may or may not think about them, it is my experiences and my opinions, please feel free not to read them if you prefer.
I deal with serious professional land management problems on our perpetual Conservation Easement with the Nature Conservancy and the Conservation Trust on thousands of acres of land that require capital expenditures to protect the rare and endangered plants, animals, and terrestrial biota on our properties. As such, I provide the capital to make changes happen on these restricted properties.
I also provide similar services to State Parks, Department of Natural Resources, State Fish and Wildlife Officers, Sheriff Departments, and other public entities on tens of thousands of acres of endangered lands as well.
If there is some better way for me to rigorously maintain the high quality of land management practices that we follow with some new gear that is much much better than the gear I have invested in, please advise.
Perhaps you had me confused with some other wannabe weekend warrior like dh223?
I feel free to express my learned opinions without prior consideration of what contradicting other people may or may not think about them, it is my experiences and my opinions, please feel free not to read them if you prefer.
Gman757
Active member
Originally Posted By: doublecheeseNow Lets get back to the subject guys.
This thread has veered WAY off course. How about a regroup guys?
Those of us that are fortunate enough to own and evaluate some of this gear can be a big help to the ones that are looking to purchase. ALL of us were in that boat at one time or another so if we just keep it to the subject then it will be of some use.
This thread has veered WAY off course. How about a regroup guys?
Those of us that are fortunate enough to own and evaluate some of this gear can be a big help to the ones that are looking to purchase. ALL of us were in that boat at one time or another so if we just keep it to the subject then it will be of some use.
SkyPup
New member
Gman, apparently (according to the newbies here) we are only supposed to discuss anything that is not made by FLIR, since they have been the premiere supplier of thermal hardware products to our military and civilian agencies for too long now and I own some of their products?
We should only discuss what is not made by FLIR and the possible new not made by FLIR thermal instruments that will be made sometime in the future?
I'll go back to reviewing my new LS-XR, M-18, and other FLIR gear in other threads since they are off limits here.
We should only discuss what is not made by FLIR and the possible new not made by FLIR thermal instruments that will be made sometime in the future?
I'll go back to reviewing my new LS-XR, M-18, and other FLIR gear in other threads since they are off limits here.