Slava Ukraini!

Saylor,

What lengths and extent of support do you think we should give?

Do you think we should commit American boots on the ground?
 
During the Cold War, there was widespread fear of a nuclear conflict with the USSR. I've often thought about the possibility of a conventional war with Russia that did not involve nuclear weapons. While I haven't seen a direct comparison or analogy involving numbers, I reflect on how the United States fought against the mujahideen in Afghanistan,compared to when they fought them. The U.S. managed to inflict significant damage and maintain a strong defensive position while sustaining far fewer casualties. Ultimately, it became a low-intensity war of attrition that neither side wanted to prolong indefinitely. Given the current state of the Russian army, I doubt that their top advisers would consider it wise to engage the U.S. or NATO in the near future.
 
Infidel 762 said:
I have admired the fighting spirit of the Ukrainian forces and have followed this conflict closely. I remember the graphs and charts comparing the sizes of the two armies, and how many believed that it would be a quick rush to Kyiv, with Russia taking the entire country within days and then facing a guerrilla war. What did Biden say before the invasion? He essentially gave his blessing for a “minor incursion.” I recall the Russian convoy that stalled due to logistics issues on its way to the capital, and Putin's initial frustration when he realized he had bitten off more than he could chew. The Biden administration even offered to help Zelensky flee ahead of Russia's expected occupation of Kyiv, but he chose to stay, fight, and potentially die, thus inspiring his army with his resolve.

Any thoughts Putin may have had about continuing on to conquer neighboring countries are likely just pipe dreams. How long can he sustain a military operation that leads to a stalemate? He is supplementing his poorly trained and equipped conscript army with North Korean troops. He knows that invading Poland or any other NATO country would lead to World War III. Many remember Russia's fate in Afghanistan, but few recall the even higher losses it sustained in the Chechen conflict. The casualties Russia is suffering in Ukraine far surpass those from both of those conflicts, and they are happening in a fraction of the time. Ukraine has become an absolute meat grinder, and they are striking back with conventional military forces inside Russia. While Chechen forces struck within Russia, it was considered a terrorist attack, and they were never able to hold any ground.

Putting aside the questions of fault or politics, the fact remains that Ukrainian soldiers are bravely fighting and dying to defend their homeland from an invading army. They have everything to lose, while the conscripts sent as cannon fodder lack that same motivation and initiative.
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Infidel 762 said:
Saylor,

What lengths and extent of support do you think we should give?

Do you think we should commit American boots on the ground?
Click to expand...
I don’t think the U.S. should commit boots on the ground. But the agreement we signed was to provide assistance in providing equipment and aid in defense to Ukraine if any of the others (Russia) went back on the agreement. Biden has practiced what his fellow Democrats have before his time in the Oval Office …Clinton, Obama…and that’s this
“Big help with a little badmouth”
Assistance to Ukraine has been done at a snails pace.

They’re all traitors, but they portray to the American public that they are helping our Allies and furthering freedom. But they do the opposite.

Republican Senator Mitch McConnell has done the same thing for decades.
 
I have zero fear of any communist Army coming to take over the US by force. They will infiltrate us from the inside, convincing and converting our minds with their ideology, implementing it and chipping away one liberty at a time. Hint, it’s already happening
 
The Ukraine Army is well equipped, they need more manpower to not just hold the lines, but to push them out. Over years of fighting Russia does not even control the air space..
 
During the first gulf war, when the Iraqi Army retreated from Kuwait, we made a military decision it was time to “de-fang” them. We decimated the retreating forces that had occupied Kuwait. We wiped their asses in short order, in what would go down in history as the highway of death. In 2003 we told Saddam he had 72hours to leave Iraq or face military intervention.

With a new administration, we could tell Putin he is in violation of the Budapest Memorandum and to leave Ukraine immediately or face military intervention. If he refused we could deploy our air force to strafe their fronts lines, like we did on the highway of death. It would turn the tides of that war within days, and we would not put any boots on the ground.

It would cost far less money and save time. Screw all this proxy and geopolitical warefare. If we are going to do something, we need to fully commit to it. Russia cannot even take out the Ukraine Air Force, do you think they would stand a chance against the US or NATO right now?
 
Saylor said:
That’s all ya got? Insults? What a ******* chump. I’ll continue to speak out and fight the creep of communism here, even when someone such as yourself insult me with such a bullshit response.
You don’t ******* know me or my own efforts in protecting my own family from the threat here, ie, public education, government schools or otherwise.

Keep listening to your beloved Russian shill media personalities like Tucker Carlson who tells ya Russia is your friend.
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Not a single insult was typed by myself. Only a sincere offer to help send you over so you could offer your support.

You on the other hand are full of insults and simply not worth my time or efforts.
 
crapshoot said:
Not a single insult was typed by myself. Only a sincere offer to help send you over so you could offer your support.

You on the other hand are full of insults and simply not worth my time or efforts.
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I don’t think it’s worth any more comment from me. Moderators: feel free to delete this post altogether, since I’m the originator.
 
' don’t think the U.S. should commit boots on the ground. But the agreement we signed was to provide assistance in providing equipment and aid in defense to Ukraine if any of the others (Russia) went back on the agreement.' I agree. I do remember the Keynseian 'monetary' theory they taught in HS. 'Guns or Butter', which is incorrect. Even the 'modified' version is bad. The Ru ego has always been to 'absorb' other lands. Period. Same with China. Anyone with any experience in miltary developement programs will understand the high cost and 'overspending' due to fighting among the various branches. Just look at the Osprey program. Don't even count the $ wasted on the 'space' programs.
 
So what does Ukraine offer us? Why should we fund them? What’s to gain?
And before anyone starts “communism” or anything else, there’s wars going on all over this spinning mass we call Earth.
We could keep our military busy in Africa for the next century. Heck, what about South America? The Philippines?

So why Ukraine?
 
Stopping Putin's expansionist invasion is itself worth doing but it's also not just that simple.

We've been sending equipment, munitions & such without replacing our own stock. Leaves us less supplied should we need it.

We've been sending them a lot of money. Small in terms of the federal budget but still a lot, with zero oversight or accountability. Hell, we've been paying for retirees pensions over there.

This at a time when our national debt has done nothing but increase at insane rates, to where we now owe more than $35 trillion & adding $1 trillion every 100 days. We have to borrow what we send them & we know we're never going to see any of it back. Not ever, no matter what.

Some of us think we need to be a helluva lot smarter about how we help & that does not make anyone a "russian supporter"
 
It's really no secret that a big portion of the wepaons the US sends to Ukriane under the guise of "aid" get syphoned off to the european black markets and into the hands of international terrorist gangs. The whole thing is a scam and taxpayers are being lied to about everything and looted by this fraud of a war in Ukriane.

R-1.jpg
 
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popper43 said:
'So what does Ukraine offer us? Why should we fund them? What’s to gain?' No different than Cuba.
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Nothing. We get nothing form these people and their war in Ukriane...except more debt and out of control inflation while they fly around our country and tell us "fossil fuels" are bad and how climate change is the real problem here, we get a constant attack on our affordable and clean energy resources such oil, gas and coal, we get covid19 and lockdowns, we have them working to transgender the next generations, they enact more FISA laws to illegally spy on American citizens and especially the oppositions political campaigns, try indict our presient time and again with all sorts of false allegations, label President Trump supporters as domestic terrorists. We get wokism, diversity, equity and inclusion, critical race theory so on and so fourth.

Perhaps the russians are not the biggest threats to western civilization.
 
Putin wants to reestablish the old Soviet Union. He works “behind the scenes” with the Chinese in their long term strategy to destroy the U.S. Their allied effort is known as “One Clenched Fist” and its mission is destroy America. Once America falls, the world will succumb to total communist control.

50+ years ago, KGB Soviet defectors warned us of all of this. Read the book “Comrade J” aka Sergei Tretyakov
who directed all Russian spy action in New York and oversaw all covert operations against the U.S. and its allies. He recruited spies, planted Russian agents, penetrated U.N. and U.S. security, and manipulated events that influenced American policy, under the direct leadership of Boris Yeltsin and Vladimir Putin.

Former KGB officer Anatoliy Golitsyn explained in his book “New Lies For Old” that the “fall of the Soviet Union” was a deception. By convincing the West that they wanted to end communist rule and embrace capitalism, this ruse convinced the West (America) to invest in Russia’s rebuild in the late 80’s and early 90’s. As a result, the Russians got Western trade, and technology…all used to build up their own military in their long range strategy to take the advantage and defeat America.

China pulled the same deceptive moves courtesy President Nixon along with help of his Secretary of State Henry Kissinger. The U.S. began investing heavily in building up China.
Basically, for 50+ years, the U.S. has been responsible in building up our 2 main enemies.
THE COLD WAR NEVER ENDED.

The U.S. (courtesy bureaucrats and elected officials) continue to sign away the security and safety of the American people with worthless treaties to eliminate our own nuclear weapons…the U.S., under Democrat (and communist controlled) Presidents since Bill Clinton, have agreed to decrease our own nuclear weapons arsenal while the Russians and Chinese never hold to any agreement. Once again, Deception. (And ignorance of our own “leaders”)

Today? Both China and Russia have overtaken us in numbers of nukes in their arsenals and capabilities of launching those weapons. Americans just keep trusting their elected officials in guaranteeing our safety and well being, oblivious of the creep of Communism. You really want to know why we have problems with already stated issues here? The woke culture? Transgender rights, pronouns, critical race theory, pornography in the elementary school libraries?

Answer: The creep of Communism into our own society and institutions, not to mention government agencies. McCarthy was right all along.

So, contrary to what some of the commenters here on this thread have stated …. communism and Russia (and China) are the real threat, the real problem, the real source of the breakdown of our own society today.
 
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Foxpro.223 said:
That's an interesting take on it I must admit. That sounds a lot like Joel Skousen of World Affairs Brief.
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While I know who Joel Skousen is, I haven’t followed his work.

I refer to the work of geopolitical analyst, JR Nyquist who has done public speaking, writing books, and articles of these issues and events of the communists long term strategy for almost 40 years. He has interviewed many KGB defectors who explain in detail what the Kremlin has been, and still is, doing to bring down America. He also has sources in China who report on what movements the CCP makes toward Taiwan and here in the U.S. He is a frequent contributor to webinars put on by Frank Gaffney on the Committee on the Present Danger China.

Trevor Louden is another resource and example of someone who has worked for years, speaking, writing books to educate the American public on the creep of Communism here and the danger it still is.

Charles “Sam” Faddis, retired CIA operations officer, as well.
 
Saylor said:
While I know who Joel Skousen is, I haven’t followed his work.

I refer to the work of geopolitical analyst, JR Nyquist who has done public speaking, writing books, and articles of these issues and events of the communists long term strategy for almost 40 years. He has interviewed many KGB defectors who explain in detail what the Kremlin has been, and still is, doing to bring down America. He also has sources in China who report on what movements the CCP makes toward Taiwan and here in the U.S. He is a frequent contributor to webinars put on by Frank Gaffney on the Committee on the Present Danger China.

Trevor Louden is another resource and example of someone who has worked for years, speaking, writing books to educate the American public on the creep of Communism here and the danger it still is.

Charles “Sam” Faddis, retired CIA operations officer, as well.
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Saylor,

What do you think about all that has transpired as of recent?
A lot has changed/advanced since we discussed this.

What do you think is a reliable source to track Russian deaths?

this is the source i track, but do not know how reliable it is;

Casualties of Russia in Ukraine - official data

Casualties of the armed forces of the Russian Federation during the war in Ukraine.
index.minfin.com.ua index.minfin.com.ua
 
Infidel 762 said:
Saylor,

What do you think about all that has transpired as of recent?
A lot has changed/advanced since we discussed this.

What do you think is a reliable source to track Russian deaths?

this is the source i track, but do not know how reliable it is;

Casualties of Russia in Ukraine - official data

Casualties of the armed forces of the Russian Federation during the war in Ukraine.
index.minfin.com.ua index.minfin.com.ua
Click to expand...
I have followed this as a source since the beginning of the invasion now almost 3 years in.

kyivindependent.com

General Staff: Russia has lost 727,250 troops in Ukraine since Feb. 24, 2022

This number includes 1,510 casualties Russian forces suffered just over the past day.
kyivindependent.com kyivindependent.com

In light of recent events, I believe that Putin is again “saber rattling” and threatening to use his nukes.
Almost 30 times he's drawn a line in the sand and said "don't cross this or else..."
Of course, there is always a chance he uses nukes, but both China and India have told Moscow not to disrupt their own access to cheap Russian oil and gas right now.

Honestly, I believe it’s a waiting game for Putin who has a sense that once Trump takes office, DJT will then “negotiate” a deal in favor of the Kremlin and the Russian invaders get back what territory they had of Ukraine (before they invaded, first in 2014 and then the major offensive 2022, both times violating their own agreement not to).

I don’t believe Trump has ever considered Russia as a threat and that concerns me. He is solely focused on China which is also a threat, and rightfully so, but he is not a student of history of these 2 countries, he isn’t aware of actual KGB defector warnings (Lunev, Golitsyn) of the long term strategy and alliance that China and Russia made long ago and the deception to the West that they hate each other.
“One Clenched Fist”
 
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