side by side comparison of Torch Pro and UNV T20

T

Travis224

New member
Just wanted to know if there was a direct comparison with the same scope. I know that they are both excellent IRs, but I'm wondering which is better with the Photon XT for shooting coyotes to 200yds or so..
 
Hi. I can tell you our Torch Pro reaches out to 800 yards and the glass lens made in Germany and the rest of the unit made in the USA. We do not believe in having our gear or ANY components of the Torch made in China for any reason We also feel the we have the best component versatility of attaching Surefire pressure switches and body housings to the Torch Pro.

The variable beam head of our Torch Pro is also silky smooth to allow the shooters index finger to easily rotate the bezel while behind your gun. A lot of design and engineering went into the Torch Pro and it remains our #1 IR accessory for so many hunters.

Hope this helps and Thank you.

Vic
 
I am new to the game here as far as NV is considered. I have a Photon XT on order. Any idea what works better with the Photon, an 850 or 920 NM IR illuminator? Can humans see both? Also, can predators and hogs see or sense both?

Thanks, PS99
 
Originally Posted By: Travis224Just wanted to know if there was a direct comparison with the same scope. I know that they are both excellent IRs, but I'm wondering which is better with the Photon XT for shooting coyotes to 200yds or so..

They are both way overkill if you are shooting coyotes at 200 yards.

What is the specific infrared adsorption spectrum of your Photon XT CMOS sensor?


Generally, with any silicon based semiconductor there are large changes in absorption depth with wavelengths, unless you know the specific adsorption spectra of the CMOS sensor that you are using, it is worthless to try to figure out which prospective IR LED illuminator will work best for your device as some wavelengths will work poorly, some moderately good, and others not at all.


What specific IR wavelength does the manufacturer recommend for use with their device?
 
Never tried one with Digital but I own both IR's.

The Torch pro is has a much cleaner light and focuses better the T-20 style IR.

The TP is brighter than the low setting of a T-20 but dimmer than the med(50%)setting of a T-20.

Both put of a red glow and will get you to 200 yards with Gen3.
 
TNVC's TorchPro uses a IR LED emitter that has a peak wavelength of 805nm, which works fine with GEN III Night Vision gear, but not so well with Gen I and Gen II NV gear since they have differing absorption spectra.

You can also screw in an IR cutoff lens into the objective on the TorchPro to cut off light below 720nm so no visible light gets out.

Do you know what peak wavelength the T20 produces?

What specific IR wavelength is your Photon sensitive to?
 
The Sightmark Photon's onboard LED IR is 810nm

Other "optional" accessories from Pulsar/Sightmark which are recommended by them are

Pulsar X850 IR
Pulsar 805 IR
Pulsar Laser 808S or 915L
Pulsar 940 IR

So safe to say anywhere in the LED 800 - 900 nm wavelength is a good match.

You'll be happy with either a Torch Pro or a UNV20IR.

BB
 
So no one has any clue as to what wavelengths the digital CMOS sensors operate at? No technical specifications available from the manufacturers in order to match up the IR illumination with the specific semiconductor digital imaging core?

I know each manufacturer procures their semiconductors from various different sources, each of which has differing absorption spectra.

Also apparent here is that the IR illuminators that come OEM from the various manufacturers leaves allot to be desired, so seems that they don't even quite know what they are selling?

Once you know the wavelength spectrum, then you can know the right IR illumination to be using instead of internet trial and error.....
 
Originally Posted By: Travis224Just wanted to know if there was a direct comparison with the same scope. I know that they are both excellent IRs, but I'm wondering which is better with the Photon XT for shooting coyotes to 200yds or so..

I don't have a side by side demo of the T-20 and Torch Pro. Some members do have both and could probably advise you as to which one they prefer. For the IR devices we sell, we recommend using the T-20 in 940nm with the Sightmark Photon XT. It puts out minimal IR signature and will be strong enough range wise to give you good illumination out to 200 or 250 yards with the Photon. You can check them out here:

http://www.hightechredneckincorporated.c...v-p/nva3175.htm

Let me know if you have any questions,

Kevin
 
Originally Posted By: SkyPupSo no one has any clue as to what wavelengths the digital CMOS sensors operate at? No technical specifications available from the manufacturers in order to match up the IR illumination with the specific semiconductor digital imaging core?

I know each manufacturer procures their semiconductors from various different sources, each of which has differing absorption spectra.

Also apparent here is that the IR illuminators that come OEM from the various manufacturers leaves allot to be desired, so seems that they don't even quite know what they are selling?

Once you know the wavelength spectrum, then you can know the right IR illumination to be using instead of internet trial and error.....

I've used both the Torch Pro and UNV20IR with digital tech for awhile now, field use trial and error shows that both perform at the top limit of what is commercially available and as stated the OP will be served well by either.

Steering the thread towards a technical discussion/comparison may not serve to make a difference for the original poster.

You are correct in that the companies don't post the technical specifications of their CMOS sensors and I don't know why that is but with digital there are so many other components that can help or hinder the resulting image so it isn't something that explicitly translates to performance like in I^2 technology where a tube with high specs is going to always trump a tube with lower specs.

My Dos Pesos...
 
Originally Posted By: BennyboneThe Sightmark Photon's onboard LED IR is 810nm

Other "optional" accessories from Pulsar/Sightmark which are recommended by them are

Pulsar X850 IR
Pulsar 805 IR
Pulsar Laser 808S or 915L
Pulsar 940 IR

So safe to say anywhere in the LED 800 - 900 nm wavelength is a good match.

You'll be happy with either a Torch Pro or a UNV20IR.

BB

Not to be a noob, but even the manufacturer suggests SIX different wavelength emitters to work with their digital CMOS?

Something is seriously amiss here as there most definitely is not a linear relationship between the various suggested IR emissions and adsorption spectrum of the sensor.....?????
 
Seems to me as though you don't know what you should get perhaps until you know what you have.

What company makes the CMOS semiconductors, Sony/Canon/Hitachi is perhaps the high grade but these are mostly Russian or Chinese sourced silicon?
 
Originally Posted By: SkyPupOriginally Posted By: BennyboneThe Sightmark Photon's onboard LED IR is 810nm

Other "optional" accessories from Pulsar/Sightmark which are recommended by them are

Pulsar X850 IR
Pulsar 805 IR
Pulsar Laser 808S or 915L
Pulsar 940 IR

So safe to say anywhere in the LED 800 - 900 nm wavelength is a good match.

You'll be happy with either a Torch Pro or a UNV20IR.

BB

Not to be a noob, but even the manufacturer suggests SIX different wavelength emitters to work with their digital CMOS?

Something is seriously amiss here as there most definitely is not a linear relationship between the various suggested IR emissions and adsorption spectrum of the sensor.....?????

Nothing amiss, they'll all work however not as well as the more powerful and efficient IRs that the original poster inquired about.

BB
 
Originally Posted By: Powerstroke99I am new to the game here as far as NV is considered. I have a Photon XT on order. Any idea what works better with the Photon, an 850 or 920 NM IR illuminator? Can humans see both? Also, can predators and hogs see or sense both?

Thanks, PS99

Trichromatic humans can see neither 850nm nor 920nm, neither can any dichromatic predator or swine on Earth see those wavelengths whatsoever.

The source of the IR emitter in the IR illuminator is an IR LED that puts out many different wavelengths of light in a normal curve with the peak at the stated wavelength, ie 805, 850, 920, 940nm, etc. Since the normal curve covers a wavelength spectra with a 95% confidence interval on both sides of the stated peak wavelength, it emits a broad spectrum of IR and visible light (red).

A laser IR is a much more monochromatic IR emitter and much more specific wavelength with much less bleed over than an LED emitter and therefore has a much tighter spectrum, which makes it more dangerous for humans because they never know when they are looking at a concentrated IR source and do not blink their eyes to shield from the dangerous concentrated IR light beam.

A tiny amount of the light from an LED IR emitter is visible red light in the 680-720nm range that trichromatic humans with 3 opsin proteins in their retinas can visualize as the color red.

Dichromatic animals, as a matter of definition, do not have three opsin proteins in their retinas and cannot visualize the color red, that is a restricted primarily to primates, not canines or other four legged animals.
 

Skypup, just trying to learn something here. If canines cannot see the color red, then what do they see from an IR device, like an 850nm that we can see? Do they see it as white?
 
6mm06, they can see some contrast of gray, that is about it, red is NOT in their realm of visual acuity, no matter how powerful or strong the red light is.

I just shot a coyote standing in the road in front of my UTV with a 24 Watt super high energy RED LED blaster and he just stood there, hogs do the same thing, as do deer and cows, it does not phaze them at all. No human being could stand in front of my UTV with that RED LED on and not shield or close their eyes from the pain, it is that strong!

Red is a color only trichromates can visualize, it is a natural anthropromorphic mistake to attribute the ability to see red to other animals, but very few outside of higher evolutionarily evolved primates with two legs have the biochemical ability to see red color.

This is similar to the fact that matadors use a red flag to wave bulls in the ring but it is just a show for people only, the bulls do not see red, all they see is the movement, as well as hear sounds and smell smells.

Also, when coyotes bite into an animal they do not see red blood, it is not red to them, it is dull gray, they only taste and smell it, red is only something you see from the hemoglobin molecules reflecting red light from all the white light that is absorbed by the blood, leaving only the red light reflected to your eyes.
 
Hey Skypup,

Or should I say Doc Skypup? Ha! I do appreciate the technical explanation of the seeing ability of the four leg critters. Even so, it seems they pick up on something when you turn a light on them. Wonder what it is? I don't think it is switch noise, but it could be. They definitely seem to know something is going on when you light them up with IR.
 
They can see gray contrast, including the shadows from it, but a much more powerful adrenaline inducer in their endocrine system is either your smell or your sound.

Seeing as how their ears can hear a mouse walking in the grass 100 yards away or their nose can smell your BO a mile away, it pays to be silent and not smell like a redneck!
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This debate seems to come up over and over again. Regardless of what science seems to imply about what coyotes can and cannot see, my true life experience (in the outdoor laboratory) tells me they can easily see white light, red light, green light, and most definitely the source of the IR light. I have had way too many come unglued at the sight of visible light and some shy away from IR source light. Some coyotes seem more tolerable than others when it comes to both visible or invisible IR light. Foxes and bobcats seem to be much more tolerable of all light from my own experience and hogs (from what I see others posting on forums such as this) seem to also be more tolerable to both visible and invisible IR light. Kevin
 
Unfortunately, too many hunters cannot think outside the human box and think that their own experience is the experience of all other creatures of nature.

Once you learn the hardcore veterinary sciences, you no longer are forced to think from your own anthropomorphic empirical experiences!
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