NYS Coyote Hunters

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On sound 23 I downloaded Rage's pocket full of shells and changed the name to cottontail distress. I told him only to use sounds 23 and 24 when one is close. They were designed for just that. Wish I could see the look on his face when he calls one in and Bah dah, dun dun dah dah comes blaring out of the speaker. LOL



/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gifAwesome. I'll have to remember that for my homemade caller.
 
nice job perri.
we took a yote a few years back that had a rear leg locked in the up position. the fur growing off the foot was 3 inches long. (weird)
it also had a wound that prevented the joint from moving.
anyway, a 30 lb. one is far better than none at all.
congratulations.

jk
 
Thanks for the kind words....

Bgunit.....that's either gonna be the funniest thing ever (would be great on video - LOL), or your buddy is gonna be smokin' hot.
Probably gonna call in a beauty, and I can only picture it when he ques up the sound.......BIG LOL.

Both Dennis and I did the afternoon out yesterday, and man was it cold. Bitter.
It had to be near zero with a steady wind out of the SW. We both setup in different spots, like the last time, and after a short while we started calling.
I started off with the "Rabid Rabbit" call of Kerry's, and no show. I switched over to both the bullet call and the Swift call, and after several "spaced" sets, I waited for a good 40 mins. Still nothing.
Dennis wasn't getting any action either.

I gave it another 15 or 20 mins, putting in a good hour at the first setup, and I got up and headed off on foot to another spot. Due to the cold, I needed to get moving.
I headed further south on the property about 500-600yds. to a very high mound which overlooks the bordering woods, heavy brush patches, and open corn and alfalfa fields.
I could see everything, and with the snow, very clearly into the woods for a good distance.
I started in again, this time using both the bullet calls, one after the other as mentioned before.
I spent another 50mins. to an hour there calling and watching like a hawk......yep, still nothing.

Dennis wasn't faring any better, response wise, and he stayed put on a hillside in an adjacent alfalfa field, out of sight by me......he had to be freezing man...but he later said, "nope, I was fine"....
He cheats though.....he uses hand warmers. I have my hands in and out of my gloves so much to call (hate trying to call with gloves on), that they get cold pretty quick.

Well to tailor the story down a bit, I headed back to the initial spot to finish off the night of what I thought was going to be a "no call, no show". It was a great spot at the bottom of a steep drainage, and about 50yds. below where I was the other night. I now didn't have the hill in front of me to contend with, and I could clearly see the whole area, and lanes of approach.
I started in calling again, doing the same "switching series" back and forth that I had been doing. I was laying at an angle on the ditch bank, with my bipod out and the gun aimed in the suspected direction of approach. Same place the other two came from on Weds.

Well, remember when I mentioned that always "expect the unexpected" ?
Well as I was laying there disappointed somewhat that nothing showed, but getting ready to pack it up for the afternoon, I was just "scanning" around.
Now I know just about every clump of grass and bush around Jimmy's place, and all of a sudden I see this dark spot "just off" the edge of the grass line next to the woods. It wasn't moving at all, but as I was there earlier, I know I didn't see it, or didn't remember seeing it. It was about the size of a football from my distance, maybe 160-170yds. Rather than move to glass it with the scope, I let out a short series on the bullet call......nothing, no movement at all.
So I did a "what the hell...nothing...and thinking my eyes are playing tricks on me in the changing light of dusk" right ?......
Now this dark lump is almost a full 90 degrees to my left up on a high hill where the field horseshoes or corner's bordered on two sides by woods.
Where I'm laying is in full view of it's location, so knowing that it can see me (even in camo) I'm thinking, still can't be nothing, so I grab the gun (.22 Super Jet) and I carefully, but not with too much caution, roll over almost onto my back to get a look......

IT"S A HUGH RED SITTING THERE STARING AT ME.......ARRRGGGGGGG.....

I slowly tried to scoot my body into some contorted position to shoot him, and I had two problems in doing so. I had my bipod out and tried to utilize it, but the embankment in the ditch I was in sloped in the opposite angle that I needed, and to make it worse he was at a goodly steep uphill angle.

Putting my knee under the one leg of the bipod, and pulling the rear stock down into the snow as far as I could, I was able to get on him and it was surprisingly steady for the second or two I needed.

Centering the crosshairs on him, and just before the shot, I could see him all scrunched down like a cat gets when they're sitting with their tail wrapped around them, all comfortable and trying to stay warm.

I squeezed off the shot and without all the recoil, I could see him go down, as Dennis says, "like a dynamited bridge".

With the fox in a semi crouching position, I aimed for the neck/chest juncture, but upon further exam, I saw a large exit wound in the neck area, under the jaw, and along the jawline up to the back of the ear. The edges of the wound were smooth (like an exit only wound) and didn't have the damage that a peripheral hit (which I thought might've happened ) usually creates.
I haven't seen a bit of that kind of damage with the Super Jet to date, and with the poor shooting setup, I must've pulled the shot a little right.
I'm zero'd at 210yds., and the impact point at 100yds. is a known 1.5 inches, also if the uphill angle was enough, all combined, it might have an affect,.....so who knows ? I try to map my loads and their trajectories, and guessing the distance at 160-175 yds. or so, that load would still be 1 - 1.25inches high by my software.... so I guess it makes sense.

I micromanage my guns and loads, and in Dennis' dry humor he said..."I don't think he really cares right now".....referring to the dead fox.

Anyhoo....the fox had (what Dennis thought) was the start of mange on it's tail, and after draggin' it back to the truck for him to check out, the diagnosis was rendered. The tail looked like it was chewed at the tip and down the length a few inches making it look ratty.

Dennis wasn't sure, but he said it looked highly suspicious, so we dumped it rather than get it on our hands or the truck.
We both got cat's and dogs at home, and I realize that it's nothing to play with.

Nice male though (other than the tennis ball sized hole under the jaw)........

Like I said in the last post......."field conditions"....go figure.


Take care guys...good huntin'

Bob
 
Bob:

Nice hunting! One thing, if I see any mange on a critter I'll leave them where they lie. I won't take any chances of spreading that stuff. (Mainly because it's a living mite.) Not good to your pets or yourself. Here's a little something I'll do, if there's no mange, I'll put the carcass in a big plastic bag and toss in some flea powder. Close the bag up and keep it in the flea powder as long as I can. Your sure of having a 'clean' hide and not taking any unwanted into your home.

Good hunting guys...
 
Mark:

No, I haven't seen any mange in New York in quite awhile, but I'm not surprised that it's showed up. There's a lot of states that we border (or are close too) and a lot of species do tend to travel over big areas. So it was bound to turn up and be transmitted our way. It seems that everywhere I read someone taking a coyote or two at least one or more has turned up with mange. Actually I should say the states bordering the Great Lakes are starting to see more and more mange and in some states it's become a problem. I hope this isn't something nature is doing to cut down on the populations of coyote, because they are in record population numbers now and even the hunters can't get rid of enough of them to do any good. (I've just read that the experts say we can wipe out 75% of the coyote population and not even hurt them.) Mange is a nasty mite and trust me, you do not want to bring it home accidentally. There is even a type of mange that will attack humans. (I believe there's five types in all.) It's just not a good thing. It would be better to burn a carcass then just leaving it to be eaten by others (then they get it), but how many of us will or can burn it in a public or privately owned land. There's got to be another way.

P.S. It's not just coyotes either, fox and other types of critters can contract mange too.
 
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Mark,

Mange seems to be cyclical, and during certain years, area specific....at least for a given amount of time. If left unchecked though, (no hunting/trapping) it seems to spread fast.

Hunting them, or hunting pressure, keeps it in check. My first ever coyote, taken up near Batavia, NY several years back, had mange. I saw that it's fur was all patched and so on, and I knew it was a blessing that I killed it. It was out, and "wandered in" to me without calling a single note. Since it's fur was mostly gone, he needed a lot more food to sustain his body heat even minimally, so he was out foraging early trying to keep alive. I couldn't see it at 210yds., but when I got close enough, it was horrible.

Dennis is far more up on it than I am, and from what he has said, the mange mite isn't very hardy once the animal dies and the blood supply has ended. Once the flesh cools, which happens pretty quick during this time of year, it can't transfer readily and it usually dies with that animal. Not all, I guess, but most. Normally, most other animals won't feed on that carcass, until it starts to decay. Not always, but usually. Most animals that realize the scent of a fox means trouble, won't get near it. There's always acceptions to the rule though.

Even when Dennis see's animals out of season that are riddled with it, he'll kill them and leave them lay. Once they get it, it's a death sentence for them anyway, and like he states, "you're doing them a favor".

One of the biggest areas of spreading is the den site. The mites transfer easily in the dens, and will contaminate the pups right off the bat. Warm blood supplies are what they live for.

I can usually spot mange conditions when I see them, but this last fox I shot was the first (if it was mange) I've seen so far this year. Even Dennis wasn't sure it was mange. Rather than take the chance, we tossed it.

Mange usually shows in the hind flanks, and tail areas first. I've seen several "ratty tailed" fox & coyotes over the years, and it seems if you see enough of them, the population soon plummets. Right now the fox populations seem very good, and if the hunting keeps them down enough, mange doesn't seem to be a problem.
When it was a problem, it seems, was when the fur market took a crap and the populations got high,....then it hit and they dropped hard.
That was the time I saw alot of it.


Hey talk to you guys later....

Dennis and I are heading out for the afternoon....got some fresh coyote sign over at "Jimmy's place" that I spotted on the way out the other day. Tracks showed that he came in {probably when I was in the gully calling), from the back way, spotted me, and went back out the same route. He stopped on the hill above me and probably sat down until he could see my position as I was calling.
I would've been very visible to that higher position.

This time, I know where he's coming from, at least......

Take care,
Bob
 
Bob:

Thanks for the info. In all the states I've hunted over the years never ran into a case of mange. Guess I've been lucky, to say the least. Need to do some research on it...

Good luck on that yote!! I have a feeling it is about to meet its demise /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif Regards, Mark.
 
Mark,

I'm sure you've hunted plenty, and if you haven't seen any mange in all that time of hunting, yes, you've been blessed.
I usually see one, maybe two cases of it a year around here.
But that's not just my kills alone. Maybe one of Dennis', or one of the other guys I know.
The preliminary signs, like I mentioned, are sometimes very hard to tell. It can easily appear as a matted, or chewed looking tail, or bald spot on the back or flank of the animal. If the fur isn't darn near perfect, and I see something like I mentioned, I'll toss it. But not without very close scrutiny first. Too hard to get them in the first place, so I don't give them up easily.

I think there are isolated pockets of it here & there, but for the most part, it remains in check. It's when the hunting/trapping drops way off that it seems to get out of hand.

Too bad I didn't have a field camera to photo it. I've been trying to get my hands on a less expensive digital camera to carry in the field now that John has the easy photo attachment over at CM.
It would allow many to look & compare. Hell, Dennis and I weren't sure even, but when in doubt, toss it.

Comparing the look of the tail, with the way the fox was acting, it appeared to be the case. He wasn't at all coming to the call, and (through the scope) looked sick. He just sat in that one spot and appeared ill.

Oh by the way;

Quote:
With the fox in a semi crouching position, I aimed for the neck/chest juncture, but upon further exam, I saw a large exit wound in the neck area, under the jaw, and along the jawline up to the back of the ear. The edges of the wound were smooth (like an exit only wound) and didn't have the damage that a peripheral hit (which I thought might've happened ) usually creates.
I haven't seen a bit of that kind of damage with the Super Jet to date, and with the poor shooting setup, I must've pulled the shot a little right.
I'm zero'd at 210yds., and the impact point at 100yds. is a known 1.5 inches, also if the uphill angle was enough, all combined, it might have an affect,.....so who knows ? I try to map my loads and their trajectories, and guessing the distance at 160-175 yds. or so, that load would still be 1 - 1.25inches high by my software.... so I guess it makes sense.



I figured this problem out yesterday. I grabbed the .22 Super Jet and headed out to the bench/range in the back yard. The wind was about nill, and as I was getting setup, one of those "real heavy" snowflake snows started in. I got the 4 wheeler out and headed down to the 200yd. target and stapled up a couple of my long range diamond targets. Good thing I used them because I could barely see them in the scope with the heavy stuff coming down.

I fired off 4 rounds, and I could see where I was 1-1.5" high, and about the same to the right. With the poor visibility, the group was still suprisingly good and allowed me to see "why" the round caught the fox "high & to the right".
When I shot the fox, I was puzzled where it hit because it "felt" good, and my aim felt good as well.

Re-shooting after an incident like that is the only way to confirm that it's either the gun, or you. Most times I blame myself, as I usually sight in at longer ranges most of the time anyway. But, I don't remember shooting the Super Jet at 200yds, to fine tune it.

Maybe I did the .22-250 and only thought I had done the Super Jet.....don't know. Getting old.......

Take care,
Bob
 
hey guys, just wondering how you guys did this past weekend? friday and sunday i went out in the evening just before dark for a couple quick stands and nada...it's been tough lately! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif i'm interested to see how the guys from BATM club did with the contest!

goose /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

i just got finished posting this and andrew had posted some pics from the contest /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif looks like they did pretty good!!
 
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Mark:
Bob is right about the mange. Take a look at the crotch area to the tail first. The crotch is usually where the mange starts and then spreads from there. Any matting, or an area where it looks like the animal tried to chew or scratch is a good sign that it's just starting and hasn't spread to the point of bald spots yet. I'll get some info from the encyclopedia and post it over at CM. It's well worth reading and knowing about.

Goose...Went for a few hours Sunday morning, but nada....I'll try again later this week.
 
I was talking to a guy at [beeep]'s in Albany a couple of weeks ago. He told me he has shot 3 in the Claverack area with mange. I haven't heard of any in this area. But he said it was pretty bad in that area.
 
Hey guys,
My partner and I hunted harder then ever before for this weeked fot the WNY predator hunting contest. Hunted from 6pm till 5:30am both Friday and Saturday night. Called them all in with hand calls, it just took them a long time to come in and they didn't really want to rush across the snowy fields. We actually won this year so I guess the long nights were worth it.
469659.JPG
 
It all paid off for you Joe......congrats /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Glad to see you guys won, and I was truly happy for you both.

I guess you wanted to win bad enough, and you put your time in......reaping the rewards...good for you /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Enjoy the spoils.........

Nice haul by the way........

Take care & good goin'
Bob
 
outdoorsjoe, congrats to you and your partner on a successful weekend! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif nice critters to show for all that hardwork!

goose /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Congrats again guys. Nice critters you bagged. You don't know this, but the best thing I heard at the check-in came from a fellow hunter who said he was "proud of you guys" for acheiving great success at calling in a relatively short time. I feel the same and always enjoy seeing your pix and, more importantly, chatting with you guys at our events.

Don't forget to check out the new February Predator "Contest" at Bark at the Moon!

Andrew
 
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