ghilliehunter
New member
Here in WI I can't shine until point of aim. So i'm looking into nightvision does any body use any and which is the best optic for nighttime?
Ghillie
Ghillie
NIght vision?
- Thread starter ghilliehunter
- Start date
Absolutely the only way to go as long as lts legal in your area. I would either quit hunting or be an outlaw if it was illegal here!!! Sometimes wonder how I ever killed them with a light before. I have an ATN MK7900 3rd gen and a Litten milspec 2nd gen. Both have infrared illuminators so you can see their eyes glow and for a little better, clearer view. If you remember only one thing about night vision remember this...a night vision scope is like a Mexican prostitute, the cheap ones are just no good and the good ones are very expensive!!! Good luck with either one.
Victor_TNVC
New member
Quote:
Here in WI I can't shine until point of aim. So i'm looking into nightvision does any body use any and which is the best optic for nighttime?
Ghillie
Depending on what range and your budget, the minimum device to see and engage a yote with good clarity out 100 yards is a Gen 2 device. (Of course Gen 3 is the best of the best). The D-740 night scope in 4X is a great unit or a monocular on the back of a day scope also works well. Hope this helps.
Vic
Here in WI I can't shine until point of aim. So i'm looking into nightvision does any body use any and which is the best optic for nighttime?
Ghillie
Depending on what range and your budget, the minimum device to see and engage a yote with good clarity out 100 yards is a Gen 2 device. (Of course Gen 3 is the best of the best). The D-740 night scope in 4X is a great unit or a monocular on the back of a day scope also works well. Hope this helps.
Vic
Vic,
I'll apologize in advance for the dumb question, but how would you use a mono behind a day scope? Also, with eye relief issue, would something like a pistol scope work better than a conventional riflescope?
I understand that a $3-4,000 night vision scope offers the best end result, but I am intrigued by the idea of a $200-300 monocular "solution" as well.
When I read posts like msinc's, it really makes me want NV, but I would have to sell my truck to do it, and its a long cold walk to some of the properties I hunt;-)
Chris
I'll apologize in advance for the dumb question, but how would you use a mono behind a day scope? Also, with eye relief issue, would something like a pistol scope work better than a conventional riflescope?
I understand that a $3-4,000 night vision scope offers the best end result, but I am intrigued by the idea of a $200-300 monocular "solution" as well.
When I read posts like msinc's, it really makes me want NV, but I would have to sell my truck to do it, and its a long cold walk to some of the properties I hunt;-)
Chris
Victor_TNVC
New member
Quote:
Vic,
I'll apologize in advance for the dumb question, but how would you use a mono behind a day scope? Also, with eye relief issue, would something like a pistol scope work better than a conventional riflescope?
I understand that a $3-4,000 night vision scope offers the best end result, but I am intrigued by the idea of a $200-300 monocular "solution" as well.
When I read posts like msinc's, it really makes me want NV, but I would have to sell my truck to do it, and its a long cold walk to some of the properties I hunt;-)
Chris
Hi Chris,
NEVER a dumb question! Glad I can help here...
Many folks do use a NV device behind the day scope by the use of a universal adapter. If you have an AR type with a rail, most either leave the day scope in the same slot or move it forward depending on what they are comfortable with. (they keep a day and night "zero") With bolt guns of course, most do not have this luxury and the day scope has to remain in one position. Eye relief is usually fine, but most find a way to use a cheek riser for a better cheek welds.
Now the real issue with this setup is a Gen 1 system. As you probably have heard and now read from me, these systems lack good brightness and clarity. Putting any NV device behind a day scope causes some light loss due to the NV looking through all that day glass. Putting a Gen 1 system in this configuration would not work well at all, it would be just about useless, plus the universal adapters are not made for any Gen 1 systems as well.
That brings us back to the the Gen 2 systems such as the D-300 or the Gen 2 (Super High Performance); these are the least amount of money one can spend and get decent results out to 100-150 yards at night engaging hogs and yotes. There is also an outstanding accessory most use as well, and that is "da torch" IR illuminator light. Effective range of these invisible dedicated IR illuminators is over 400 yards. Yotes, hogs and other predators CANNOT see in the IR spectrum of light so you never have to worry about spooking game. My research has shown (maybe) snakes and owls may come very close in seeing in the IR spectrum of light.
Sorry for the long winded post, but I hope this may help you and others out there. I have attached a few pics showing the universal adapter with a PVS-14, same mount works with the other NV devices as well, just different opening diameters for the lens. I have also snapped a pic of what the variable torch looks like at 500 yards. Hope this helps
Vic
Vic,
I'll apologize in advance for the dumb question, but how would you use a mono behind a day scope? Also, with eye relief issue, would something like a pistol scope work better than a conventional riflescope?
I understand that a $3-4,000 night vision scope offers the best end result, but I am intrigued by the idea of a $200-300 monocular "solution" as well.
When I read posts like msinc's, it really makes me want NV, but I would have to sell my truck to do it, and its a long cold walk to some of the properties I hunt;-)
Chris
Hi Chris,
NEVER a dumb question! Glad I can help here...
Many folks do use a NV device behind the day scope by the use of a universal adapter. If you have an AR type with a rail, most either leave the day scope in the same slot or move it forward depending on what they are comfortable with. (they keep a day and night "zero") With bolt guns of course, most do not have this luxury and the day scope has to remain in one position. Eye relief is usually fine, but most find a way to use a cheek riser for a better cheek welds.
Now the real issue with this setup is a Gen 1 system. As you probably have heard and now read from me, these systems lack good brightness and clarity. Putting any NV device behind a day scope causes some light loss due to the NV looking through all that day glass. Putting a Gen 1 system in this configuration would not work well at all, it would be just about useless, plus the universal adapters are not made for any Gen 1 systems as well.
That brings us back to the the Gen 2 systems such as the D-300 or the Gen 2 (Super High Performance); these are the least amount of money one can spend and get decent results out to 100-150 yards at night engaging hogs and yotes. There is also an outstanding accessory most use as well, and that is "da torch" IR illuminator light. Effective range of these invisible dedicated IR illuminators is over 400 yards. Yotes, hogs and other predators CANNOT see in the IR spectrum of light so you never have to worry about spooking game. My research has shown (maybe) snakes and owls may come very close in seeing in the IR spectrum of light.
Sorry for the long winded post, but I hope this may help you and others out there. I have attached a few pics showing the universal adapter with a PVS-14, same mount works with the other NV devices as well, just different opening diameters for the lens. I have also snapped a pic of what the variable torch looks like at 500 yards. Hope this helps
Vic
JoeF
New member
All of the equipment shown is only about 1/2 the answer to the original poster's problem.
As I read it, he is needing to scan the area to see and identify animals prior to actually lining up and shooting one.
Sure, if you're just shooting targets of opportunity, the NV scope shown would work. On the other hand, if you are actually calling predators and scanning a wide area for 10's of minutes a scoped rifle is not a good choice.
We aren't going tactical here and "engaging" coyotes with our rifle to our shoulder like you see guys do when clearing a house.
Are there any active and successful predator callers out there that are using night vision?
Callers, not guys shooting hogs around a feeder or other situations where a simple scope would do the job. Callers who have to be able to see and identify animals over wide areas over long periods of time.
As I read it, he is needing to scan the area to see and identify animals prior to actually lining up and shooting one.
Sure, if you're just shooting targets of opportunity, the NV scope shown would work. On the other hand, if you are actually calling predators and scanning a wide area for 10's of minutes a scoped rifle is not a good choice.
We aren't going tactical here and "engaging" coyotes with our rifle to our shoulder like you see guys do when clearing a house.
Are there any active and successful predator callers out there that are using night vision?
Callers, not guys shooting hogs around a feeder or other situations where a simple scope would do the job. Callers who have to be able to see and identify animals over wide areas over long periods of time.
Victor_TNVC
New member
I hunt with a several hardcore predator folks in Texas and we're all using NV. You're correct the FOV is limited with a dedicated NV RIFLE scope. This is just one application. In a typical night setting, we also have other folks using 1x monoculars on their heads or behind an EO Tech (AR applications) which gives an awesome 40deg view. These folks (we take turns) are the spotters when calling yotes in. The main guy with the rifle scope gets 1st dibs getting on the yote. Another technique we use is to employ an IR laser pointer to identify the yote as well. It does take some time an experience shooting at night with NV but worth the extra effort in so many ways. It really is enjoyable to say the least. Most folks who use NV for the first time at night, never want to go back to white lights. Hope this helps.
Vic
Vic
I have been hunting predators with night vision for 3 years.
Thru trial and error I have found the best system is a head mounted Gen 3 mono with an aiming laser mounted(and zeroed) on my rifle.This gives you the ability to scan WITHOUT pointing your rifle at everything and causing extra movement.We use an Infrared illuminator (DaTorch) and scan.The illuminator is an invisable spotlight that lights up eyes past 500 yards!
As Vic stated, you really need a spotter when use a rifle mounted scope, and even with a spotter it's tough to pic up a "yote" up close and personal, right Vic? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Equipment shot after the Graham hunt last year
3 bobcats and 1 yote, all shot with head mounted NV with aimimg lasers
Thru trial and error I have found the best system is a head mounted Gen 3 mono with an aiming laser mounted(and zeroed) on my rifle.This gives you the ability to scan WITHOUT pointing your rifle at everything and causing extra movement.We use an Infrared illuminator (DaTorch) and scan.The illuminator is an invisable spotlight that lights up eyes past 500 yards!
As Vic stated, you really need a spotter when use a rifle mounted scope, and even with a spotter it's tough to pic up a "yote" up close and personal, right Vic? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Equipment shot after the Graham hunt last year
3 bobcats and 1 yote, all shot with head mounted NV with aimimg lasers
cwbycrshr
New member
Hi Vic and Wes,
Many of you members here on PM have seen me around, responded to my posts, etc. I am not BSing about this below:
Guys, I have met and hunted with Vic before. He is by far the most knowledgable and experianced NV Civilian Salesman in the US. He is also a straight shooter and will let you know what you need and not try and sell you something with a higher profit margin. Check out AR15.com. He has answered a million questions on that sight and has personally sold me NV toys in the past and let me play with some of his when we were hunting in Jack Co a few years ago.
Wes1 is also a friend of mine and very experianced with NV, just want spend much time on this forum as he is to active in others.
Good NV is not cheap. It will take a signifacant investment ($1,000's) to get quality and clarity. Keep that in mind. If you can't afford atleast Gen2 or Gen 2+, don't get the cheap stuff. Night Owl and some of the others advertise Gen 3 and Gen 4, but it is not Gen 3 or 4. It is there version and you will be doing good if you can see animals at 100 yards. I have played with all the guns above, mine is the second from left I believe (camoed AR 20" barrell) and all of this is Gen 3 tubes. Those are what cost the $...the tubes.
Sorry to ramble, computer is about to die. [beeep] Gateways!!!!
I'll be back after I go drive over this with my truck and get the kinks worked out /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Many of you members here on PM have seen me around, responded to my posts, etc. I am not BSing about this below:
Guys, I have met and hunted with Vic before. He is by far the most knowledgable and experianced NV Civilian Salesman in the US. He is also a straight shooter and will let you know what you need and not try and sell you something with a higher profit margin. Check out AR15.com. He has answered a million questions on that sight and has personally sold me NV toys in the past and let me play with some of his when we were hunting in Jack Co a few years ago.
Wes1 is also a friend of mine and very experianced with NV, just want spend much time on this forum as he is to active in others.
Good NV is not cheap. It will take a signifacant investment ($1,000's) to get quality and clarity. Keep that in mind. If you can't afford atleast Gen2 or Gen 2+, don't get the cheap stuff. Night Owl and some of the others advertise Gen 3 and Gen 4, but it is not Gen 3 or 4. It is there version and you will be doing good if you can see animals at 100 yards. I have played with all the guns above, mine is the second from left I believe (camoed AR 20" barrell) and all of this is Gen 3 tubes. Those are what cost the $...the tubes.
Sorry to ramble, computer is about to die. [beeep] Gateways!!!!
I'll be back after I go drive over this with my truck and get the kinks worked out /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Indianacaller
New member
wes1 I sent you a private message.
Unseen
New member
My understanding is that the use of night vision is legal in WI under certain circumstances but only those that use ambient light. No illuminators are allowed. How much ambient light is required?
Bellow is from the WI DNR FAQ page.
"It is only legal to hunt coyote, fox, raccoon, and unprotected species at night. If a night vision scope emits a small amount of light, regardless of color, in order to enhance night vision you may not use it to hunt or harvest an animal, including at the point of kill. If your night vision scope emits no light and merely gathers ambient light, you may use it to hunt at night for those species legal to hunt at night."
Bellow is from the WI DNR FAQ page.
"It is only legal to hunt coyote, fox, raccoon, and unprotected species at night. If a night vision scope emits a small amount of light, regardless of color, in order to enhance night vision you may not use it to hunt or harvest an animal, including at the point of kill. If your night vision scope emits no light and merely gathers ambient light, you may use it to hunt at night for those species legal to hunt at night."
Quote:
My understanding is that the use of night vision is legal in WI under certain circumstances but only those that use ambient light. No illuminators are allowed. How much ambient light is required?
If you get a "tube" with great specs you don't need any illumination.
So you can use night vision but no IR illuminators?(which are invisable)
My understanding is that the use of night vision is legal in WI under certain circumstances but only those that use ambient light. No illuminators are allowed. How much ambient light is required?
If you get a "tube" with great specs you don't need any illumination.
So you can use night vision but no IR illuminators?(which are invisable)
cwbycrshr
New member
Quote:
Quote:
My understanding is that the use of night vision is legal in WI under certain circumstances but only those that use ambient light. No illuminators are allowed. How much ambient light is required?
If you get a "tube" with great specs you don't need any illumination.
So you can use night vision but no IR illuminators?(which are invisable)
Yep, no illuminators...IR included. The next big question is, can you use laser aiming devices?
Many states that do not allow night hunting...in the verbage of the law...rule out NV also. A few letters to the congress may be able to get the verbage changed to allow NV and/or IR illuminators.
Quote:
My understanding is that the use of night vision is legal in WI under certain circumstances but only those that use ambient light. No illuminators are allowed. How much ambient light is required?
If you get a "tube" with great specs you don't need any illumination.
So you can use night vision but no IR illuminators?(which are invisable)
Yep, no illuminators...IR included. The next big question is, can you use laser aiming devices?
Many states that do not allow night hunting...in the verbage of the law...rule out NV also. A few letters to the congress may be able to get the verbage changed to allow NV and/or IR illuminators.
Unseen
New member
I think the part that states "and merely gathers ambient light" would imply no external light source at all.
I tried finding the actual statute on this but have not found it yet. The quote I posted was from the WI DNR website frquently asked questions page and still leaves allot of questions.
I tried finding the actual statute on this but have not found it yet. The quote I posted was from the WI DNR website frquently asked questions page and still leaves allot of questions.
Victor_TNVC
New member
Unseen brings up an important factor to ALWAYS check your local laws about hunting at night with NV gear. It seems his state actually uses pretty clear language about the use of a NV scope. Some states have laws written when Gen 1 Vietnam era scopes were out and use verbiage that is very confusing to say the least.
Vic
Vic
Has anyone ever used or have an opinion on this: http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templa...&hasJS=true
It is a addition to an existing scope to turn it into a night vision scope!
Zach
It is a addition to an existing scope to turn it into a night vision scope!
Zach