NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy...

Thanks Bob appreciate your reply. I will explain some more about what I'm working on.
First I pattern tested some loads at 40, 50 & 60 yards and found lead BB held a good pattern, my home loads put 6 pellets in a fox size target at 60 yards. This is repeatable with some shots putting 10 pellets into the target.
When I move back to 75 yards the BB pattern is not so good and I noticed pellets where not going through the plywood target board. The next size pellet I tried was 4 Buck and that makes a decent pattern with plenty of energy for a fox however I would like more pellets in my 12 gauge 3" 1.5oz load. Thus the question about T Buck.
I note your last para and fully agree. My longest shot on a fox was 50-55 yards. I'm working on a project to see if I can produce a killing pattern out to 75 yards and that means consistently putting 6 hits into a fox's head/vitals.
I am in no way suggesting anyone tries shooting live fox/coyote at this range. It is my own research into what a shotgun can do with hand loads and optimizing pattern results using screw in chokes tuned to the load.
To many people over here think buckshot covers a barn door at 10 yards, so it surprised a few when I posted a fox target with 8 00 Buck holes in it shot at 40 yards, 100% of the payload.
Thanks again.
 
Wingshooters struggle with the idea of a "precision shotgun." The 30" patterning circle of wingshooting is a far cry from the 10" circle of the precision shotgunner.
 
Yes GC, never thought of it as precision shotgun but you sum it up nicely.

I used a 6" circle on the target head and an 8" over the vitals, target is life size fox so a bit smaller than coyote, target board is 36"x40" which lets me keep track of what the pattern is like in the traditional 30" circle just for reference i'm only interested in the 2 smaller circles.

Load of good stuff on this thread - Thanks.
 
I am intrigued by the performance of the longbeard xr ammo and decided to try and duplicate the technology into a couple of loads that have performed poorly in pattern testing and are just laying around collecting dust.
This is not scientific. I'll be brief.
I used 3 mediums for buffers. Plain ole white elmers glue, easy cast jewelry resin, and good ole bondo resin.
Loads were the blue box federal 3" #4 buck and hornady's flight control bb.
2 guns used were a 1300 turkey with 22" barrel and Jesse Briley porting and a 300 outlander with 28" unported barrel.
cylinder, imp cylinder, patternmaster big game, and .665 turkey chokes were used.
I opened the crimps and dumped the pellets. I lined the shells with saran wrap to prevent adhering the payloads to the outer case. I filled the cases one third with buffer and replaced the pellets. Minus 10 bb's for the bb load and 4 buck pellets for the buckshot to compensate for the unknown weight of the dried buffer and just to be safe. Then I poured more buffer in until the pellets were submerged.
Let everything dry a week.
Cut the excess saran wrap and tightly crimped the shells.
Range day.
Elmers glue makes slugs. Period.
Jeweler's resin releases about half the #4 buck but still sends a nasty slug down range. The hornady bb load remained a slug.
Bondo and the bb load was still a slug but the bondo and #4 buck was a different story. On firing there was no cloud, no residue, no slug, no trace of the bondo at all after firing #4 buck. The outlander with the patternmaster averaged about 3 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yds. The 1300 with turkey choke averaged 12 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yds. Normally I would be lucky to get 1 pellet in the ring at that range with that load. I got really consistant patterns with this load and I was slightly impressed considering my hunting load of fed prem. #4 buck averages 15 pellets at that range in a 10" circle.
That is all. Just having a little fun. You never know when you might find something special.
 
Great stuff. Thank you. I am patterning a shotgun here and there and it is making my fragile brain hurt. I will probably use some of your recommendations in the future.

You recommend .660 choke. Isn't that fuller than full? And that does not cause shot deformation and crazy fliers? I ask because I was told to much choke is bad.
 
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Too much constriction can be bad... and it might not either. There are some generalities to work with and some of the factors that influence constriction are bore size, shot size and shot material. People get hung up on that .660" number but rather they should get hung up on the actual amount of constriction from their particular bore size. The number .660" means that my old school Benelli M1 gets .065" constriction for lead shot no larger than No. Four Buck. It works. But if the Mossberg 835 shooter tried the same .660" choke that would give him .115" of constriction from his overbore .775" barrel! That is not going to work and in fact could be dangerous. Bore sizes are all over the place depending upon the manufacturer and generation of gun. It's critical information.

At the same time with my Benelli if I am going to use tungsten or some form of denser than lead shot I need to ease up on the constriction. Now a .670" performs better giving .055" of constriction. Hard shot just shouldn't and/or won't tolerate too much squeeze. Patterns get blown and in worst case situations so do barrels! Now if I start flinging great big balls of shot like 00 Buck I need to back off even more. In my case about .025" of constriction works really well for 00 Buck from my other Benelli the Tactical Model.

Shorter barrels can often use just a bit more constriction than a longer barrel. I have 18.5", 24" and 26" barrels for those two Benelli's. The shortest needs about .005" more constriction than the longest to get similar performance. Many knowledgable choke manufacturers will ask what barrel length before recommending a constriction for a particular gun. There is a reason for that - as a general rule. Many guys don't care or notice the slight difference in performance. The perfectionist can't rest until he knows.

None of that addresses point of impact with point of aim. That's a whole 'nuther can of worms. And then there is the dirty bore - yuck. Dirty bores seldom pattern as well as squeaky clean bores and chokes. How many shots can you shoot before you loose your pattern? Something else to investigate. I know about my two guns, the Camo 24" is more tolerant of a dirty bore than the shorty TAC Model. Even temperature and humidity influence patterns. Do all your patterning work on nice summer days but will your pattern hold up on a snowy 22* degree morning with dark clouds and heavy wet air? Want to guess?

With all that said there are so many individual independent factors that the only way to know what sort of pattern your particular gun barrel, choke and load is going to actually produce is to shoot the various combinations until your shoulder is bruised, your fillings loose and your wallet flat. Shotguns are as finicky as rifles... who'd a thunk it?
 
Trulock suggested their "boar blaster" for 00 buck and the "Deerstroyer" (or whatever) for #4 buck. Both are listed as special constrictions. I emailed them to ask what are the actual constrictions of the two chokes are before I buy. I should get the email back in the morning. (They are usually fast)

As a side note, I learned that the full Carlson choke is actually a light full choke. So all this time I was thinking that I was getting more choke than I am. Now I am thinking that I will get the patterns and range that I am trying to get provided I get a choke that is tight.


This thread has been very helpful and educational. Although I won't allow myself to go out and by $100 choke tubes for a $200 shotgun, other than Trulock are there any other choke brands that work well for short money?

It is really to bad that my 18 1/2 inch barrel has a fixed cylinder choke. I bought the gun for the shorter barrel and wish it would pattern better. But at least I have the 28 inch to work with.

Thank you tons for this thread and the replies and all the help!!!!!
 
@GC,
Very good information! I had to come by all this on my own and there's a lot of bad information out there even among people supposedly "in the know".

It helps when manufacturers list the exit diameter and more importantly to know the bore dimensions of ones specific firearm model. I have one of those shorter barrel 835s and even some Mossberg guys couldn't tell me the specific differences between the over bored barrel and a standard Mossberg accuchoke/Invector choke tube system.

I'll second that the shorter barrel likes more choke and to put a finer point on something you mentioned above, the tightest 835 choke I use has an exit diameter of .670 which is a really tight turkey choke or a constriction of .105". My equivalent choke to your basic .660 would be .690. To elaborate on what you said about the differences between say a lead 4 buck and a heavy weight load, that .690 is good for the 4 buck or a smaller B heavyweight.

It's true a guy (or gal) can broke patterning and finding just the right combination and even when you think you have it you're always still looking for better. My wife complains I'm out of ammo and buying more but where are the pelts to show for it, lol!

@G19g4
You mention the Carlson's full being more like a light full, I've been through the same scenario and why I find it helpful to know the actual exit diameter or constriction. Both Carlson's and Trulock will answer the phone and are happy to be helpful. Unfortunately in my case, the guys at Carlson's told me three different constriction on a particular choke tube. There's a lot of bovine scatology out there too to sort through, a lot of hype that isn't necessarily true. But both Carlson's and Trulocks chokes are very similar dimensionally for a given platform. Some manufacturers will be happy to exchange a product if you find it isn't working for you. Give a choke a fair shake but as long as you keep receipts and packaging and don't sit on it too long, chances are they'll exchange it. For example, I purchased a Carlson's LongBeard choke with an exit diameter of .683 when I knew the less expensive TruGlo choke at .670 patterned better, but was a loaner so I needed a replacement. As expected the more open choke didn't pattern as well but was more expensive, looked sexier, and was supposedly optimized to work with Winchester LongBeard ammo claiming 182 pellets in 10" at 40 yards. The load came up way short so I emailed and asked for an exchange to the tightest choke they make for my gun which is .675. They happily exchanged the choke and I patterned it against the .670 TruGlo and came up with +/- of pellets in the single digits between the new Carlson's and TruGlo loaner with each producing generally about 170 pellets in 10"

The buckshot has been more frustrating and more difficult to pattern.
 
This is a post I made regarding chokes from down below. I'll pin it here to preserve it...


Kinda nit picking but the "forcing cone" isn't found in the choke section of the barrel. The forcing cone is the area immediately ahead of the barrels chamber. Usually a more gradual and/or lengthened forcing cone patterns better because it allows the shot an easier entrance into the constriction of the shotguns bore. The bore is tighter than the chamber and the easier the shot can sort itself out entering the bore there will be fewer mashed pellets and less disruption of the shot. The more round pellets the better the pattern and fewer wide straying pellets flying off into outer space.

Extended chokes have a longer "parallel section." This longer straight section of the choke does about the same thing for the shot column as a lengthened forcing cone at the chamber. Only now the shot gets the gentle treatment at the exit end of the barrel. The choke constriction is tighter than the bore so it's the same process as from the chamber and into the tighter forcing cone area. Also, usually extended chokes have a wad retarding mechanism to slow the plastic wad from the exiting shot pellets. Not having a big hunk of plastic banging around in the back of the shot column disrupting pellets is a big plus. With standard wad systems stripping or slowing the wad from the shot column gives a much more consistent and center dense pattern.

That is unless you are using a Flite Control wad system like Federal and now Hornady use. In the case of the Flite Control wad it is designed to stay with the shot keeping the shot sorta gathered together farther down range before separation. Firing a shotshell using the Flite Control wad through a tight exit diameter wad retarding choke can be potentially dangerous by causing the shot load and wad to bridge in the choke. This would basically be about like firing a solid Foster style slug through an extremely tight choke. No good comes of that. Barrels bulged, blown or stripped of chokes have resulted from such a bad combination. However there are extended chokes designed for the Flite Control wad that don't have a wad stripping/retarding mechanism. By all accounts these specialty chokes work quite well.
 
I'm a newbie so take it easy on me. But what's the issue with OO buckshot? Our hunting club is having issues with coyotes and hogs. I've patterned my SBE2 using the new Tru-Lock Boar Blaster using Federal Premium 3" and 3 1/2" OO buck for the purpose of close range hogs and coyotes. At 40yds I'm getting 6-8 hits in a 8" circle and decent coverage outside of it. Now my Browning Gold Hunter with a Carlsons Xtra Full put 12-13 of the cheap blue box federal 3" #4 buck in the same size target. I know more holes is better. But I don't see that many 00 not being lethal.
 
Ive gone thru all 85 pages of this thread. Wow, a little numbing but a lot of very valuable information.
Im waiting on parts but as soon as I can get my older 870 Turkey re-assembled I plan to do some patterning.
Has anyone had barrel work (lengthening forcing or back boring) done then patterned. Did it improve anything?
 
Marc,
Just as a general thing it isn't that 00 Buck isn't lethal. It's just that it's unnecessarily large for coyotes and patterns might be thin at longer ranges. Sorta like using a .30-06 for coyotes. The 06' isn't lacking in power but the question is why use such a hammer if there are better alternatives available. In your case with hogs as a possible target and as well as your gun patterns that 00 Buck I'd use it with confidence. BTW, I've called coyotes a lot in hog country and have used an 06' and even a .45-70 at times when the odds of stumbling into a big boar was a real possibility. I can tell you from first hand experience, both the 06' and .45-70 will knock a coyote stiff.
smile.gif
 
I ended up getting an extended ported Turkey choke that is .660"
Really pulled the 00 buck together at about 30 yards. And the #4 buck seems to be patterning good.
For the life of me I do not know why I did not bring and Flitecontrol rounds with me, but the stuff I quickly shot seemed to be way better with the turkey choke.
 
Originally Posted By: G19g4I ended up getting an extended ported Turkey choke that is .660"
Really pulled the 00 buck together at about 30 yards. And the #4 buck seems to be patterning good.
For the life of me I do not know why I did not bring and Flitecontrol rounds with me, but the stuff I quickly shot seemed to be way better with the turkey choke.


Is that the Carlson's extended ported turkey choke? That's the one I have for my 835. Patterns like a champ with Winchester LongBeard XR! I haven't tried 4 buck through it though. Mine is .675 but again it's a Mossberg 835 with overbored 10 ga dimensions.
My ported tubes have made FliteControl loads do the opposite of what they're supposed to do. As a rule, FliteControl is better served with a non ported choke tube. The ports strip the FliteControl wad away where it should stay with the shot.
 
Generally speaking, does the Federal flight control wad prefer tighter chokes or more open, I cant remember. I know they prefer a non-ported/wad stripping.
I found some 00 buck and 3"turkey #5 today that I want to try.
 
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I found my best result with the 00 Buck load with .025" of constriction. That's an Improved Modified choke.
 
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