Baiting

Cougar Jim, I think the confusion on the light wave lengths and visibility below 940 nm comes in because the actual light coming from from the IR device is invisible, but when looking into the face of the IR device itself the glow of the led's is visible to humans and canids as well. So in that sense a company can claim the light is invisible while not mentioning that the source of the light is visible. A 940 nm is totally invisible even when looking at the source.
 

Jim, just be aware that a 940nm will not throw a beam very far, maybe 25-30 yards if that, so if you are out and about calling, then that high a nm might not work well. But, for setting a 940nm up near a bait site, the little bullet camera is peachy keen and sees very well.

The reason I wanted to try the 940nm is due to stealth. I don't want coyotes to see the red glow that comes from an 850nm and below.

I have read that someone said a 940nm gives off a very faint purple glow. But, my light doesn't give off any detectable light all that my eye can see. I didn't stare it, just quickly glanced to see if there was light emitted. There was nothing but dark that I could see. Amazing, and I was standing within a few yards of the light. Under similar conditions, I can see the red glow of an 850nm.


 
Thanks David.
I am looking for some kind of night vision I can use on my bait pile and still do some calling by roaming around. The Coyotes around here are kinda jumpy with a light. My red led works good for most animals but not with yots. I am keeping an eye on your rig but I don't know about roaming around with all that on my gun? I would like to see something a little smaller and cheap LOL. What would be a good scanning light that is good for about a 100 yds and oh yes CHEAP.
 
Originally Posted By: 6mm06
Cozwurth (David), I have hunted before near Franklin, many years ago while in the military, stationed at Norfolk. I did some squirrel hunting over there on a pheasant / game bird preserve. Small world.

You will find in most cases, that the .223 is just too much gun for fox, that is if you are saving the skins. Otherwise it's perfect.

Do you have a lot of coyotes in that area?

Yep, small world. I don't know how many coyotes are around, but I know we have them. I've heard two howling from different areas behind my property on several occasions. One of my neighbors hunts/calls on a regular basis and has taken quite a few locally. I'm mainly concerned with the fox raiding my chickens. I've never lost one to a predator while they were contained in their run, but I like to have them loose in the yard doing chicken things and eating bugs during the day. Lower feed bills are nice, too. Happy chickens make for tasty eggs.
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I've been debating on whether to get another gun or not. I have a .22 LR bolt action rifle, and a 9mm carbine. I know that neither are good for very long range, but I really won't have any shots on my property longer than 100 yards. I'm trying to find some ballistics info on some 9mm +P and +P+ to see if there is any possibility of adequate accuracy and energy left at 100 yards. The COR-BON 90GR hollow point +P looks promising with 1750 FPS from a 16.5 inch barrel, according to ballistics by the inch website. Looking at ballistics for the rifles, it seems that a lighter/faster bullet is the way to go. I know that my carbine will never see the same velocities as a .223, so the COR-BON or Buffalo Bore with a light (for a 9mm anyway) bullet in +P or +P+ will be about the best I'll ever achieve. I'll probably end up getting a box or two for testing anyway. I'm also looking into the possibility of a Remington 700 in .270 that my bro-in-law has, but that would be even harder on the fur than the .223. My shot with the .223 left a fist-sized hole on the hit side with no exit as it was. Blew the whole shoulder out, too. Any advice on this note?

Back to baiting... Once the weather shifts I'll be clearing a shooting lane out into the woods behind one of my sheds to set up a bait pile. The range will probably be about 50 yards or so. I have a window that I can install in the shed, and I can build the rest.
 
Originally Posted By: Cougar JimThanks David.
I am looking for some kind of night vision I can use on my bait pile and still do some calling by roaming around. The Coyotes around here are kinda jumpy with a light. My red led works good for most animals but not with yots. I am keeping an eye on your rig but I don't know about roaming around with all that on my gun? I would like to see something a little smaller and cheap LOL. What would be a good scanning light that is good for about a 100 yds and oh yes CHEAP.
Jim if you want just a good scanning light in Red Led then I would recommend mounting a XLR 100 Kill Light to your Scope. You can buy it by its self for $49.99 that's what I use on my .22 Mag
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Originally Posted By: cozwurthOriginally Posted By: 6mm06
Cozwurth (David), I have hunted before near Franklin, many years ago while in the military, stationed at Norfolk. I did some squirrel hunting over there on a pheasant / game bird preserve. Small world.

You will find in most cases, that the .223 is just too much gun for fox, that is if you are saving the skins. Otherwise it's perfect.

Do you have a lot of coyotes in that area?

Yep, small world. I don't know how many coyotes are around, but I know we have them. I've heard two howling from different areas behind my property on several occasions. One of my neighbors hunts/calls on a regular basis and has taken quite a few locally. I'm mainly concerned with the fox raiding my chickens. I've never lost one to a predator while they were contained in their run, but I like to have them loose in the yard doing chicken things and eating bugs during the day. Lower feed bills are nice, too. Happy chickens make for tasty eggs.
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I've been debating on whether to get another gun or not. I have a .22 LR bolt action rifle, and a 9mm carbine. I know that neither are good for very long range, but I really won't have any shots on my property longer than 100 yards. I'm trying to find some ballistics info on some 9mm +P and +P+ to see if there is any possibility of adequate accuracy and energy left at 100 yards. The COR-BON 90GR hollow point +P looks promising with 1750 FPS from a 16.5 inch barrel, according to ballistics by the inch website. Looking at ballistics for the rifles, it seems that a lighter/faster bullet is the way to go. I know that my carbine will never see the same velocities as a .223, so the COR-BON or Buffalo Bore with a light (for a 9mm anyway) bullet in +P or +P+ will be about the best I'll ever achieve. I'll probably end up getting a box or two for testing anyway. I'm also looking into the possibility of a Remington 700 in .270 that my bro-in-law has, but that would be even harder on the fur than the .223. My shot with the .223 left a fist-sized hole on the hit side with no exit as it was. Blew the whole shoulder out, too. Any advice on this note?

Back to baiting... Once the weather shifts I'll be clearing a shooting lane out into the woods behind one of my sheds to set up a bait pile. The range will probably be about 50 yards or so. I have a window that I can install in the shed, and I can build the rest.
I don't think that the 9MM is going to have the Knock down or accuracy at 100 yards for Yotes. A .22 Mag,.204 or .223 will be the best IMO
 
Quote:
Jim if you want just a good scanning light in Red Led then I would recommend mounting a XLR 100 Kill Light to your Scope. You can buy it by its self for $49.99 that's what I use on my .22 Mag
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wallbass
I have a good shooting red led light on my scope now. I just need a good Scanning light. Waving my rifle around gets my arm tired very quick. I will look at the XLR 100

Thanks for the info.
 

Jim, basically all a scanning light needs to do is pick up eyes, to my way of thinking. Your shooting outfit, whether night vision or a day time scope with a red LED will do the identifying and shooting. You really don't need much of a bright light for scanning in my opinion. Others may disagree.

As to the home-made night vision for calling, I think the small battery that Roland suggested on YouTube would be good. It would fit in your coat pocket. The wires, tied together to one out-going lead shouldn't be a problem. The main problem that I see as a possible negative would be the backlight from the LCD in your face. A red filter might be used to place over the LCD screen to cut down on the glow, but not sure how much it might affect sight acquisition.

Cozwurth, good luck with the shed and shooting lane. I'm sure you know to consider prevailing wind when cutting your shooting lane. Don't want the wind blowing from the shed to the bait site. Also, just for info, coyotes will approach the bait site from the down-wind side, allowing the wind to blow from the bait to them. You can predict which way they will enter the bait area by the wind.

As to any thoughts about the .223 and fur damage, I haven't yet found a solution. I'm sure there are bullets that could be used to lessen fur damage. I haven't really experimented enough to know which one. I have some thoughts, but that's just my thinking. You would have to reload your own ammo, though. I can say one thing for sure, a 55 gr. soft point from a .223 will ruin a bobcat. That I know first hand.

On another topic, today I did some more shooting / testing of the home-made NV, shooting from the cabin to the 60 yard bait site. I wanted to test to see if there was any POI shift. I had taken the NV outfit off of the daytime scope the other day, so I had to replace it for the test. Essentially I was checking two variables at the same time - not really a good thing to do, which was checking repeatability of zero when reattaching the night vision as well as POI shift.

Nevertheless, the results show that POI had changed again, but only slightly this time. The 2-shot group shifted about 1/2" to the right.

The bottom target is where I left off the other day. This photo was posted earlier. Today I shot at the upper target. You can see the POI shift,
though it wasn't much.






This latest group would kill a coyote at 60 yards, but it's not acceptable to me. I plan to try a different daytime scope.

One thing that is apparent, however, is the consistency of the projected crosshair on the LCD screen for aiming and shooting consistently. The aiming point via LCD is great and consistent. I'm getting more and more used to looking at the LCD and crosshair. It felt a bit odd at first, but I am now comfortable with it.

This home-made job "IS" going to work, that I feel confident. I will find a solution to the POI shift. Roland told me he has not experienced any POI problems nor has anyone else reported any, so I feel certain this can be solved.



 
Quote:As to any thoughts about the .223 and fur damage, I haven't yet found a solution. I'm sure there are bullets that could be used to lessen fur damage. I haven't really experimented enough to know which one. I have some thoughts, but that's just my thinking. You would have to reload your own ammo, though. I can say one thing for sure, a 55 gr. soft point from a .223 will ruin a bobcat. That I know first hand.
David I have a 223 also but I am in the same boat. I can't seem to find a pelt friendly round for it, so I will just have to use my 22 mag for now because you know that I am after Bobcats mostly. A lot of people on this forum recommends the 40 gr V-Max. Then others say they will blow an exit hole as big as as your hat. I am just going to use the 22 mag with the V-Max to save pelts, they brought an average price of about $675.00 this last spring right here in my home town. (Klamath Falls OR) Some went over $1000.00
 
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Originally Posted By: Cougar Jim
Jim if you want just a good scanning light in Red Led then I would recommend mounting a XLR 100 Kill Light to your Scope. You can buy it by its self for $49.99 that's what I use on my .22 Mag
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wallbass
I have a good shooting red led light on my scope now. I just need a good Scanning light. Waving my rifle around gets my arm tired very quick. I will look at the XLR 100

Thanks for the info. [/quote
Jim I use the 100 on the rifle it could be used without mounting. Also I scan with a Noxx headlight with a RED LED they are clearance for $39 or alittle more for the new Model. Heres the site>>> https://noxxflashlights.com/index.php/headlamp.html
Click to expand...
 

Wow Jim!! For that kind of money, you don't want to take chances with the .223.

One other thing, Cozwurth, I agree with Wallbass. I don't think the 9mm is going to cut it as a predator round - unless the critters are right on top of you, and then I would be shy of it even then. Just my thinking.
 
Quote:
Jim I use the 100 on the rifle it could be used without mounting. Also I scan with a Noxx headlight with a RED LED they are clearance for $39 or alittle more for the new Model. Heres the site>>> https://noxxflashlights.com/index.php/headlamp.html
Thanks for the the info on the noxx light, I would had rather had the headlamp but I made an offer on a New TR-500 Cree White/Red/Green Tri-Color LED Flashlight Torch through eBay and was com-meted to buy it so I am stuck with it for what it is worth.
[img:center][/img]


 
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Jim, let us know how your new light works out for you. Like Wallbass, I use the XLR 100 red for scanning (handheld or hat mounted) and XLR 250 gun mounted for shooting. That rig will work good to 100 yds which is about the limit for your 22 mag I expect. One thing that has helped me when calling is that I run the scan light all the time. I never turn it off. If animals come in to the call and the light is on, they seem to be much less spooked than to be suddenly hit be the light out of total darkness. It has helped me.
 
Thanks for the input on the 9mm carbine. I've been doing more searching here on predatormasters about this, too. I've found quite a few posts on this, and some great info on the AR based 9mm. Mine is a Hi-Point, not AR based, but the theory still applies. Just like any other topic, opinions vary, and you get about 10 opinions for every 6 posts. Some say 'no way', others say 'works great, just keep it inside (100)(75)(50) yards'. Ammo recommendations varied from plain 115 grain FMJ to 147 grain +P+ HP rounds. I will be buying a couple of different types of rounds for some range testing and take it from there. I'll be keeping my eyes open for a good deal on a "real" rifle, too.

Anyway, back to baiting... David, you mentioned taking the prevailing winds into account when cutting my shooting lane, both in the previous response to me, and in other posts in this thread. What I can find on prevailing winds shows that it blows from the southwest. My shed is literally 120 feet from my back door, so our scent is in the area and on the breeze here constantly. Will this still be a major concern for me? My shooting lane would essentially have to be facing almost due-West since the tree-line in the back yard runs North/South. My "back yard" is essentially 20 acres of woods, and I'm surrounded on the North by more woods and farm land, farm land on the west, and woods/recent cut over to the South. To the East is the street and neighbors houses about 4/10 mile away.
 

Cozwurth,

Good luck with the 9mm. You know, there's nothing like in-field experience to show how well it might work, one way or another. My previous thoughts were just "guessing" since I have no personal experience. I say, give it a go and see what happens. It may work well for you under your hunting situations. Keep us posted about that.

If I understand correctly, your hunting position in the shed would be facing west, looking down a trail you plan to cut. The prevailing wind blows "from" the southwest, which means it's essentially blowing in your face when you are in the shed. Is that correct? If so, then that part is good up to this point. But, you must also consider where the coyotes are most likely to approach from to go to the bait. Will they somehow come from the treeline behind your house, or from the north? If from the north, then it's possible they would travel southwest to the bait, maybe following a wooded or brushy area, while you would be more southeast of them. I could see how that setup could work. If they come from behind your house, how would they get to the bait? Would they circle your place in order to get there, or would they come close to the shed? Try to determine where the coyotes generally are and how they would travel to approach the bait, then consider your shooting lane and hunting position.

Look at the 3rd photo (bottom one). See the old hunting blind in the briar patch near the center of the photo, but up higher on the hill, just under the ridge? Well, that was originally my hunting spot, and the bait site is where my cabin now sits. I kept thinking the coyotes would approach the bait site from the wooded area below the bait site and cabin, down the hollow. I had it all backwards. I sat in that blind a lot and never saw a coyote. I'm sure you can see what was wrong with that setup. The wind was blowing from me in the blind to the coyotes as they would come over the ridge top to my right (left in the photo). They would wind me and be gone. I have often wondered how many times that might have happened while I was in the blind. I'll never know for sure. After I got more into baiting, learning coyote travel (from tracks in the snow) and prevailing wind etc., I saw the problem with that setup.

It would be a good idea for you to take some photos of your area, of where your house and shed are, where you want to put a shooting lane, and where you think the coyotes might approach from. Or, get an aerial map or Google map to view the topography. Maybe do some sketching of prevailing wind and expected coyote travel. Then you will know more how to arrange your hunting position. Post some photos here on the forum and some of us can maybe help out. I would like to see your land features, wind, shed etc.

As to the wind, most all predator hunters know it is a very big factor with coyotes. Where I hunt on the farm, there is human scent around, but probably not like at your place. Whereas there's a possibility you might get away with some scent, I don't think I could as much.

Here's an example of my shooting setup. I'm sure you have seen similar before in previous posts many pages back.

I chose the cabin site due to prevailing wind and general coyote travel.








The prevailing wind blows up the hill. My cabin is not quite 90 degrees considering wind. So, I'm essentially hunting crosswind. Coyotes generally travel to the bait site from the
hillside / knoll that you can see in the photo, this I know from tracks in the snow. They do on occasion, come from different directions, but generally they approach from the knoll down to the bait site as shown in the photos.

One time I noticed coyote tracks on the hillside directly above the cabin, which would be directly downwind of my position. Whether they / it could smell any odor coming
from the cabin, I don't know. But, I killed two coyotes that night.

Though the cabin is not totally air tight, it's pretty tight. There are two vents in the upper back wall that I can open and close to allow fresh air in. I'm sure that some odor can
escape the cabin that way. While the window is open, the rifle and scope are sealed up with a thick foam that keeps cold air out, keeps cabin light in and hopefully doesn't allow
scent to travel out.

I'm also thinking, guessing of course, that "fresh" scent on the wind vs older scent might make a difference. I feel certain that coyotes can smell where I have been at the bait site
when I check cameras and put out fresh bait, but it's not like me being there and the wind blowing my scent directly to them. But also, I approach the site in a way that I don't
have to walk directly in the grass where the coyotes approach from. I go to the bait site from the cabin direction, and walk along the lower part of the hillside toward the small tree.

DoubleUp may jump in here and give his thoughts. I think the wind doesn't always work to his advantage. He shoots from a window in his house.

I'm thinking that if you are in the shed (which may not be as air tight as my cabin), ready for a hunt, and the wind is blowing to the coyotes from the direction they may travel,
your success rate may suffer. I think a nose full of fresh human scent would not go over very well with a coyote.

Having said all this, you won't know until you try.

Other things to consider besides wind, are noise and movement. Will you be able to remain quiet for long periods of time (which means comfortable during the wait), and will you be able to move about to get a shot without being seen? There's a lot to consider to successfully hunt over bait.

Hopefully others will jump in with this.

 
David,
Lots of good information...

I took some screenshots of my property from google maps... the treeline I was speaking of is a bit more northeast slanting than I remembered... "UP" is North in both pictures. This shot is several years old, but I have it marked up to indicate current conditions.



This close-up of the property was shot before I got the second shed and the coop. I will be looking to see which shed has the least resistance to cutting a shooting lane since I have not installed the window yet.



I have no idea if there are any coyotes passing through my property, but they have been seen and/or heard all around me. I got my new trail cam in today, and I have it set out on the bait that I've been putting out in the south/west corner of my yard at the edge of the woods. It's very close to where the fox has been seen coming into the yard, and leaving quickly with a hail of buck shot all around. Once the shooting lane is cut, bait is set, and the camera is placed I hope to find out. A friend had his game cam out for several weeks in the southeast corner where all the cut-overs meet and got pics of quite a few deer, a couple pics of a fox, and some rabbits. No yotes at all.

Dave
 

Cozwurth,

OK, let's see if this is how things are. I may be wrong, so correct me if I am.

Look at Photo 1 here and tell me if I am correct.

The white arrowed-line represents a wind coming from the southwest, and the circle is your house and shed near the tree line, correct?

If so, then coyotes in the northern wooded section, fields in the distance etc. would be able to get the scent. But, if you notice,
only a small part of the wooded section would be directly down wind. Most of the woods are to the left of the prevailing wind.
However, coyotes move about and once they find the bait, then they will continue coming, they will know where to go.






Now, look at Photo 2, of points A, B and C.

What is the distance from point A to B? The field to the left (west) of point B, appears to be a large field with no houses, which means
coyotes will be in that area too, mousing etc.

Just curious about the distance from a line running through A-B, and up to C. How far? Would it be possible to cut a shooting lane
most of the way to point B, leaving enough for shooting safety of course? That may be a bigger task than it might seem at first glance.

What is the area North of point C? It looks like scrub or partly wooded.






In photo 3, I put a dotted line to vaguely represent your shooting lane. Again, am I correct with all of this
or am I way off base? Is it possible to cut a lane further than 50 yards? Might be good to get the bait site
further away from your side of the woods, if possible without too much work.






If I am correct with all of this, then I can see how you can coyote hunt and have the wind right. If the coyotes frequent the wooded area
north of your house and in the area to the north of that, or in some of the fields to the east, they should smell your bait. The prevailing wind
is just that, it isn't constant, so the wind will blow here and there and allow the coyotes to find your bait. Of course, the woods may not allow
scent to travel as much as in open areas. So, use smelly bait, the moreso the better, and pour some blood up higher on tree branches, or put
pieces of raunchy bait up a bit higher off the ground and let the wind do it's thing.

You will essentially be hunting crosswind, though at an angle. The coyotes will follow structure, like the wooded area and even if they come from
the northeast, they will most likely follow the woods and put them out of your scent trail. They don't like to venture out into open fields generally
when they have structure to follow. So any coyotes approaching the bait from the north or north east, will most likely follow the wooded area to the bait.

Any coyotes in the area to the west of your bait site will probably circle around the bait and approach from the northeastern end of the prevailing wind.
You can expect coyotes to come to the bait site from the northeastern end. They like the wind in their nose when approaching.

Photo 4 shows the prevailing wind (long arrow) and your downwind position (short arrow). I don't see any problem with wind here, especially since it
appears to be a good distance from your house to the small wooded are to the north east of you.






Personally, I think you have a good setup, again, if I'm right about everything in the drawings. The wooded area acts as a funnel to allow the coyotes
to travel to the bait and feel comfortable in the process.

Let me know if all my thinking is correct. If so, I like your setup.

 
Originally Posted By: 6mm06
Cozwurth,

OK, let's see if this is how things are. I may be wrong, so correct me if I am.

Look at Photo 1 here and tell me if I am correct.

The white arrowed-line represents a wind coming from the southwest, and the circle is your house and shed near the tree line, correct?

Yes, that is correct.

If so, then coyotes in the northern wooded section, fields in the distance etc. would be able to get the scent. But, if you notice,
only a small part of the wooded section would be directly down wind. Most of the woods are to the left of the prevailing wind.
However, coyotes move about and once they find the bait, then they will continue coming, they will know where to go.






Now, look at Photo 2, of points A, B and C.

What is the distance from point A to B? The field to the left (west) of point B, appears to be a large field with no houses, which means
coyotes will be in that area too, mousing etc.

The distance from A to B is about 500 feet, give or take a little. There is quite a bit of distance of open fields beyond the woods, about 1 1/4 miles to the nearest building in that direction.

Just curious about the distance from a line running through A-B, and up to C. How far? Would it be possible to cut a shooting lane
most of the way to point B, leaving enough for shooting safety of course?

The distance from AB to C is a little over 1/4 mile. I can make the shooting lane longer than 50 yards and still leave a decent safety buffer. It probably won't get done this winter, though. I'm going to concentrate on getting the 50 yarder done first.

What is the area North of point C? It looks like scrub or grown-up.

I think it's re-growth from logging, but it's been growing for more years that the area south of me.






In photo 3, I put a dotted line to vaguely represent your shooting lane. Again, am I correct with all of this
or am I way off base? Is it possible to cut a lane further than 50 yards? Might be good to get the bait site
further away from your side of the woods.

You've nailed it pretty good.






If I am correct with all of this, then I can see how you can coyote hunt and have the wind right. If the coyotes frequent the wooded area
northwest of your house and in the area to the north of that, or in some of the fields to the east, they should smell your bait. The prevailing wind
is just that, it isn't constant, so the wind will blow here and there and allow the coyotes to find your bait.

You will essentially be hunting crosswind, though at an angle. The coyotes will follow structure, like the wooded area and even if they come from
the northeast, they will most likely follow the woods and put them out of your scent trail. They don't like to venture out into open fields generally
when they have structure to follow. So any coyotes approaching the bait from the north or north east, will most likely follow the wooded area to the bait.

Any coyotes in the area to the west of your bait site will probably circle around the bait and approach from the northeastern end of the prevailing wind.
You can expect coyotes to come to the bait site from the northeastern end. They like the wind in their nose when approaching.

Photo 4 shows the prevailing wind (long arrow) and your downwind position (short arrow). I don't see any problem with wind here, especially since it
appears to be a good distance from your house to the small wooded are to the north east of you.






Personally, I think you have a good setup, again, if I'm right about everything in the drawings. The wooded area acts as a funnel to allow the coyotes
to travel to the bait and feel comfortable in the process.

Let me know if all my thinking is correct. If so, I like your setup.

You seem to be dead-on with your thinking, and I'm glad you like the setup.


I'll be scouting out a baiting an area in the woods, and set my camera on it to see what's moving around out there. I'm hoping that it will be a good setup.

Dave
 
I will probably be off the computer for a while, my wife is back in the hospital with another open heart surgery. I will be back as soon as I can. Keep the forum going guys.

Jim (Cougar Jim)
 
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