Advantages of lights vs. night vision or thermal.

[OKRattler]

I bet I can guess most prefer thermal over anything. But I can honestly say when it comes to hunting at night I honestly prefer lights. I've used all three and it's just something about lights that appeal to me. Seeing those shining eyes take shape into an animal as they get closer is just awesome to me. I may be one of the few people that feels that way in todays world.

Which made me think of this question. What is your opinion on the advantages of thermal and night vision over lights or even the other way around?

I see the advantages of both. For example most people I know and maybe most people everywhere buy the bare minimum to get the job done. What isn't talked about and never will be is just how many non-target species are killed because of misidentification? I'd say it probably happens fairly often. The same can happen with lights if you're just shooting at eyes shining. But as a hunter it should be common sense to identify what you're shooting at before you even take the safety off. Even though most of these thermal scopes cost $1,000 to $2,500 which is a lot of money to most, they aren't always the best quality. Which I'd venture to guess that is what your average person is using. I've looked through high end thermal and it's amazing. But not everyone can or will spend that kind of money on a "toy" unless they're getting something out of it.


Of course the advantage to thermal and night vision is no lights to potentially spook animals and better yet to help find downed animals. Which I think is where thermal is a very useful tool for predator hunting at night. For killing hogs I think there's no better tool available than thermal on an AR platform. But huntin with lights is something I hope never goes away. Some of the funnest times I've had huntin was in Texas huntin out of a high rack shining lights with my buddies.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

$1,000-$2,500?

 

[wolverines]

I listened to a podcast the other day. A guy from the Nightcrew (I think that's what it's called) was talking about hunting with lights and how it blinds the animal from seeing the truck/shooters. Anyway, I thought he said they still shoot with thermal?? Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like that's what he said. I just think the terrain and rules/laws lend itself for hunting with lights in TX. I don't think you can hunt like that in a lot of other states. Definitely can't in MI.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

I listened to a podcast the other day. A guy from the Nightcrew (I think that's what it's called) was talking about hunting with lights and how it blinds the animal from seeing the truck/shooters. Anyway, I thought he said they still shoot with thermal?? Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like that's what he said. I just think the terrain and rules/laws lend itself for hunting with lights in TX. I don't think you can hunt like that in a lot of other states. Definitely can't in MI.

You're exactly right. They've shot every coyote killed under lights for a decade+ with a thermal on the rifle.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

I can hunt with lights in some of the states I hunt, but I'll never do it. I live within 10 miles of two other states, so the rules are important to remember.

The reason I'll never do it is the attention it brings. I don't want people looking out their windows and seeing a big glaring spotlight scanning a field. I don't want people calling the cops or the game wardens to come investigate. I hunt with thermals and suppressors because I'm trying to be as discreet as possible, to both predators and Karens.

 

[OKRattler]

I know maybe three people that own a thermal that was over $2,500. Most people ain't calling coyotes often enough to justify the cost. What that thermal deal has done really is turn people into coyote shooters. Not necessarily coyote hunters. If we're wanting to be 100% truthful.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

If the goal is to kill coyotes and you don't have a helicopter, thermals are the most effective way to kill coyotes by far. If you can't call in coyotes during the day, you probably won't kill any at night, or at least not very many. Night hunting with thermals is probably 3x as effective as daytime, but if you see a guy stacking them at night, make no mistake, that's a wolfer who is just using the best tool for the job.

 

[OKRattler]

If the goal is to kill coyotes and you don't have a helicopter, thermals are the most effective way to kill coyotes by far. If you can't call in coyotes during the day, you probably won't kill any at night, or at least not very many. Night hunting with thermals is probably 3x as effective as daytime, but if you see a guy stacking them at night, make no mistake, that's a wolfer who is just using the best tool for the job.

A dead cow and thermal would be the most effective. I know people that do it all the time to win calling contest. The guys that call and kill that many are impressive to me. But as I mentioned before it's not so much coyote hunting anymore as it is coyote killing. It's easy to stand by a dead pile and wait on coyotes. Calling is a whole different deal altogether.

There are guys that are very efficient at calling up and killing coyotes with thermal. But there's also a lot of highschool kids that could go out and do the same thing from their vehicle and never turn a call on if they're in a target rich environment. I know of places right now where just driving through you'd see upwards of 20 coyotes at night on any given night. Some places it's just that easy.

There's no doubt it's a very effective way of killing coyotes. I won't argue that point. I have buddies that were hunting over dead pits in Kansas and they killed 50 in 2 nights. They never turned a light on except when they were driving from one place to another.

 

[OKRattler]

I listened to a podcast the other day. A guy from the Nightcrew (I think that's what it's called) was talking about hunting with lights and how it blinds the animal from seeing the truck/shooters. Anyway, I thought he said they still shoot with thermal?? Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like that's what he said. I just think the terrain and rules/laws lend itself for hunting with lights in TX. I don't think you can hunt like that in a lot of other states. Definitely can't in MI.

I'm pretty sure they do. The lights are more for the filming aspect of it. The old videos you see of people calling at night are mostly done with red lights and often times it's not the best footage. The Nightcrew guys light up the whole area like a football stadium.

I don't have anything against night vision or thermal. I just like lights so I can actually see the animal as a whole instead of looking through a screen. That's one part of night vision I actually prefer of thermal. You get to see what the animal looks like instead of looking at a blacked out or whited out version of that animal.

I don't think calling with lights is legal in Oklahoma. Thermal and night vision is though. Not sure what the deal is with that. You have to have written landowner permission either way so I don't see what the difference is in that aspect. If lights were allowed I'd think it'd be easier to enforce that rule. Fences aren't that hard to cross.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

I guess I won't be bothered by how other folks do it. If people who can't call, are effective standing over a bait pile with thermals, well, it sounds like a very effective hunting strategy. If killing a coyote is success, then sounds like they are better at it than you. Maybe they aren't good coyote callers? Well, if you can kill 50 in 2 nights without turning the call on, I'd say we might all be better off buying a few cows to kill and make our own deadpiles a week or so before any of the big tournaments. You could make money on that exchange. We should probably only use our e-calls to beat the wounded ones to death. Hunting using any method that is legal is still hunting. If you choose to handicap yourself, that's cool, but not for me. I enjoy day and night coyote hunting, but make no mistake, I'm doing it to kill coyotes, not to tell myself that while I kill less, it's more noble because I'm doing it with a spear.

 

[Spurchaser]

Think it’s a geographical option. Listened to a podcast with the Night Crew and they’ll tell you no trees or brush to hinder seeing the coyote or casting shadows.
I’ve used lights on an AR to kill hogs, but I knew where they were based on a cell cam and bait pile. I could sneak in without light and wait until I could smell them and hear them eating, then flip the switch and get to shooting.
I’ve never tried coyote hunting with a light at night. I got a thermal for hogs and the only reason I ever got into coyotes was walking up on a group one night after borrowing a caller to go try and call hogs near a bottom. I shot 2 then went back the very next night after listening to podcast all day and played pup distress and the rest of that same group came running to me and I killed another. I was HOOKED!
Only been doing it going on two years now, but when I do something, I go all out. I spend the money on the best equipment “I” can afford. I guess there are thermals out there as cheap as you mentioned and for folks that have spent a lot of their lives in nature they could still use them and be killers. You learn quick what something is just by their mannerisms.
I’ve played with old NV and care nothing for it. Guess if it’s all that was available or legal then and only then would it be my choice, but I’ll stick with thermal any day of the week. I hunt in areas you can sit in a deer stand during the daylight and look down and have a deer within 10yds and wonder where in the heck did that come from.
If I could hunt from an elevated position every time around no trees, a light would probably be pretty cool to use. But I don’t and coyotes are hard enough to come by on the properties I have access to so a thermal it is!
As far as hunting coyotes, I don’t do that. I go with pure intentions of making them extinct, plain and simple. If I had a bait pile they were coming to or knew that I could put something out that they’d continuously come to, I’d be all over it. I trap them and if driving on the property and see a coyote or hog I’ll shoot either one in a heartbeat. I “hunt” deer and turkeys, I kill coyotes and hogs with no remorse.

 

[tawnoper]

**

 

[hunt0168]

Here in the northeast, for coyotes specifically, I will stick with thermal. Hunted lights for years and had success, but I know I left a lot in the field that I never knew were there. Digital NV upped successful stands a bit, but the drawbacks became obvious pretty quickly. I had a thermal scanner that I would clearly see coyotes with that were invisible to the Digital NV scope due to brush, tall grass, snow, fog etc.

If I could only pursue fox, and I don’t anymore, I wouldn’t bother investing in thermal gear. They’re easier to call out into the open, and not nearly as wary as coyotes. I do like to see those eyes glowing though.

 

[OKRattler]

I guess I won't be bothered by how other folks do it. If people who can't call, are effective standing over a bait pile with thermals, well, it sounds like a very effective hunting strategy. If killing a coyote is success, then sounds like they are better at it than you. Maybe they aren't good coyote callers? Well, if you can kill 50 in 2 nights without turning the call on, I'd say we might all be better off buying a few cows to kill and make our own deadpiles a week or so before any of the big tournaments. You could make money on that exchange. We should probably only use our e-calls to beat the wounded ones to death. Hunting using any method that is legal is still hunting. If you choose to handicap yourself, that's cool, but not for me. I enjoy day and night coyote hunting, but make no mistake, I'm doing it to kill coyotes, not to tell myself that while I kill less, it's more noble because I'm doing it with a spear.

On that end of it, it doesn't have anything to do with being better or doing one thing over the other because it's more fair to the coyote. Notice how I said these guys do it during a calling contest. It's not fair to other people to spend their hard earned cash and play by the rules, meaning calling coyotes in during the contest just to be beaten by people who are dishonest and don't follow the rules. All the while claim to be good callers but when it comes down to it they wouldn't know how to set up a stand and successfully call half as many coyotes in as they take to those contest.

That's where I have a problem with it. Not the use of thermal in itself. I've shot a lot of stuff with thermal. Some called, some weren't. For fun hunting or fur hunting or depredation purposes then by any means necessary. But to cheat during a contest is an entirely different deal altogether.

It's called a calling contest for a reason. A killing contest.... I'd be doing the same thing. But during a calling contest I'm gonna turn a call on and do it that way. Because that's what you're supposed to do.

If they're not good coyote callers my advice would be not to enter coyote calling contest. Because that prize money wasn't meant for them.

But as a whole I think thermal is great. But it can also be used to screw people around too in some situations.

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

On that end of it, it doesn't have anything to do with being better or doing one thing over the other because it's more fair to the coyote. Notice how I said these guys do it during a calling contest. It's not fair to other people to spend their hard earned cash and play by the rules, meaning calling coyotes in during the contest just to be beaten by people who are dishonest and don't follow the rules. All the while claim to be good callers but when it comes down to it they wouldn't know how to set up a stand and successfully call half as many coyotes in as they take to those contest.

That's where I have a problem with it. Not the use of thermal in itself. I've shot a lot of stuff with thermal. Some called, some weren't. For fun hunting or fur hunting or depredation purposes then by any means necessary. But to cheat during a contest is an entirely different deal altogether.

It's called a calling contest for a reason. A killing contest.... I'd be doing the same thing. But during a calling contest I'm gonna turn a call on and do it that way. Because that's what you're supposed to do.

If they're not good coyote callers my advice would be not to enter coyote calling contest. Because that prize money wasn't meant for them.

I'm confused... is this thread about your preference for using lights and/or the advantage of using lights vs. thermal or is it about how unfair some calling contests are?

 

[OKRattler]

I'm confused... is this thread about your preference for using lights and/or the advantage of using lights vs. thermal or is it about how unfair some calling contests are?

It wasn't made about that until it was made that way. I voiced my opinion on it. It seems some people on here are pretty touchy and probably are the same people that shoot coyotes off dead pits or plink them from the roads at night and call themselves hunters of coyotes. Or at least it's starting to seem that way.

I've used thermal and night vision myself. It started out as what advantages do each have and it seems as though some took it as a personal attack. Which could turn into that before it's all said and done. That part is up to y'all. I'm good with it either way.

Or we can talk about the advantages of disadvantages of each like I initially started this thread for. If you like huntin dead pits, cool. If you road hunt, good. I don't care about that. Use your thermal and be happy. It don't bother me how you do it.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

It wasn't made about that until it was made that way. I voiced my opinion on it. It seems some people on here are pretty touchy and probably are the same people that shoot coyotes off dead pits or plink them from the roads at night and call themselves hunters of coyotes. Or at least it's starting to seem that way.

I've used thermal and night vision myself. It started out as what advantages do each have and it seems as though some took it as a personal attack. Which could turn into that before it's all said and done. That part is up to y'all. I'm good with it either way.

I shoot coyotes off dead pits
I shoot them from the roads anywhere I can legally

And I call myself a hunter of coyotes.

I also call 95% of the coyotes I kill. I hunt day and night and kill my share during both.

So is it up to you to decide that I'm not a hunter, or an ethical hunter? Or am I just not a good coyote hunter, or caller, or whatever?

 

[OKRattler]

I shoot coyotes off dead pits
I shoot them from the roads anywhere I can legally

And I call myself a hunter of coyotes.

I also call 95% of the coyotes I kill. I hunt day and night and kill my share during both.

So is it up to you to decide that I'm not a hunter, or an ethical hunter? Or am I just not a good coyote hunter, or caller, or whatever?

Notice how you're literally the only person on this thread that takes offense to anything that was said? You turned the thread into a thread about you essentially. Who are you again? Never heard of ya. I don't care how you kill coyotes. If it's legal, go for it. Even if it's not go for it. That's literally how much I care about your business.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Notice how you're literally the only person on this thread that takes offense to anything that was said? You turned the thread into a thread about you essentially. Who are you again? Never heard of ya. I don't care how you kill coyotes.

I'm not offended by anything, just trying to understand what you're trying to say. Your point isn't very clear. I have no interest in making anything about me sir.

 

[OKRattler]

I'm not offended by anything, just trying to understand what you're trying to say. Your point isn't very clear. I have no interest in making anything about me sir.

The point is I don't have a problem with thermal as a whole. But I guess somehow this thread is perceived that I hate thermal and the people that use it. When I've used it myself. So I don't see how. Do I think it's made shooting coyotes easier and essentially made every Tom, Dick and Harry a coyote hunter? Absolutely.