6 arc touching the lands

varminter .223 said:
Has anyone measured to see what coal the 58 vmax touches the lands on a 6 arc? In my experience the v max bullets touch the lands at shorter coals than most other light 6mm bullets.
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I would just say be careful. There probably won't be a lot of bullet in the case at the listed COAL. I personally never go much over that if any. I ran into this with my 95gr vmax 6.5CM loads. I wouldn't dare run them any longer than the listed COAL.
 
wolverines said:
I would just say be careful. There probably won't be a lot of bullet in the case at the listed COAL. I personally never go much over that if any. I ran into this with my 95gr vmax 6.5CM loads. I wouldn't dare run them any longer than the listed COAL.
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I agree. I never get there unless I'm loading something really heavy for caliber, and I know there is a bunch of bullet in the neck. With these short bullets, I'll back up .10 or so to be safe.
 
Hecouldgoalltheway said:
When you change seating depth, you're also changing pressure. You've been told forever that the accuracy change you've seen is because you changed the jump or jam. As an experiment, the next time you are tuning a load and you seat a bullet out further or closer and you see an accuracy improvement, mark it, then go back to the original coal and adjust your charge in the corresponding direction and see if the results are not the same. When you realize that this is a fact, you stop worrying about seating depth so much. Load it as long as your magazine allows, (minus a hundred thousand or so for proper operation), and then play with your charge weights. If you happen to get maxed out on powder and haven't found what you want, then sure, start shortening your coal, but the idea that the distance to the lands (again, with some exceptions) is that critical to accuracy is fudd lore. I can prove it with a simple example already discussed here. You can have a 55gr bt in a 6arc chamber that shoots .5moa or better, (a half mile from the lands), or you can take a 55gr bt and stuff it in a short chambered 22-250, extended out long enough to have to be single fed, and you can make it shoot .5moa. They are polar opposites in jump, and it doesn't matter. Most loading processes are fuddlore and
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I never seat on the lands I think it can make things critical. Whole purpose of the thread was to try to figure out if any varmint bullet would be touching the lands before it was out of the case......nothing more. I think Ive come the conclusion the arc is just another internet sniper round with a case not big enough to push the bullet its designed to shoot with any speed. Just keeps verifying what a winner the 22 Nosler is for coyote hunting. Probably why I dont own a Valkyrie, any Arc, or a Grendel. Advertising still causes need I guess.
The simple answer I was looking for is the 58 needs to be at x coal to touch the lands and its out of the case. That would have told me that every bullet I would intend to shoot is out of the case and there's no need for me to even consider this cartridge again for my needs. The goal was a lower recoiling varmint round for the kids. I will stick with the 6x45.
 
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varminter .223 said:
I never seat on the lands I think it can make things critical. Whole purpose of the thread was to try to figure out if any varmint bullet would be touching the lands before it was out of the case......nothing more. I think Ive come the conclusion the arc is just another internet sniper round with a case not big enough to push the bullet its designed to shoot with any speed. Just keeps verifying what a winner the 22 Nosler is for coyote hunting. Probably why I dont own a Valkyrie, any Arc, or a Grendel. Advertising still causes need I guess.
The simple answer I was looking for is the 58 needs to be at x coal to touch the lands and its out of the case. That would have told me that every bullet I would intend to shoot is out of the case and there's no need for me to even consider this cartridge again for my needs.
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I think what you're saying is correct, but not necessarily your take on the 6arc. Hornady never called it a varmint cartridge, and until the last 6 months they never loaded anything below 100gr from the factory. 6 months or so ago they made the 80gr eld-vt, which seems to be an excellent option, and it's actually longer than the 87gr v-max. The arc is designed for long, heavy for caliber bullets, and it does it very well.

I also agree that the 22nosler seems to be the pound for pound king of coyote cartridges. Obviously you can do better with the larger stuff (22-250, 22cm, 6cm etc.), but in an ar15 for small fast varmint bullets, the 22 nosler seems like the place to be..
 
Im sure the arc has its place. Butttttt Im on predatormasters not a website that has the word "sniper" in it ;)
Im just a dude that gets all geeked out on the rare occasion I find a coyote dumb enough to be fooled by my calling. I need a laser that requires 0 brain function at the moment of truth. Although these new ballistic calculating lrf thermals seem to make speed a bit less critical. My xv freedoms still lack that though.
 
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AWS said:
I did not think there is a set dimension, each barrel maker has there own reamer. Best bet is to just measure you barrel.

I once loaded a bunch of target ammo for the PM Egg Shoot, it was a compressed load in my 6x45 with the bullet just touching the lands. I ran every round through the action from the mag, nary a hiccup. I got to NV and the first round the target blew over so I ejected the round,.the bullet stayed in the barrel and dumped the powder into the action. The rifle was out of action luckily it had a spare along. I ended up having to reseat the whole batch.

I give the lands some clearance now.
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I'm not so sure that the distance or length of it is not a set max for the cartridge. I'm pretty sure if it' a bolt action, it has to fit into a standard magazine length. I found out with the 6mm Rem the magazine on a 700 Rem is to short to let the bullet reach the lands and still fit in the chamber. To bad. I had an L61 Sako years ago in 7mm Rem Mag that the magazine was long enough to allow me to seat the bullet out to the junction of the case and neck and still fit the magazine but, then the bullet got shoved into the lands. Took a loaded MTY with the bullet seated out where I wanted and made a huge difference in how it shot. 160gr Speer HC went from 66.0grs of powder to 69.0grs and went to a 5/8" shooter at 100 yds! Can't remember the powder. Well can't find my old Speer must from back then, it was about 1972. Company said powder was not burning the same all the time and discontinued it.
 
varminter .223 said:
Im sure the arc has its place. Butttttt Im on predatormasters not a website that has the word "sniper" in it ;)
Im just a dude that gets all geeked out on the rare occasion I find a coyote dumb enough to be fooled by my calling. I need a laser that requires 0 brain function at the moment of truth. Although these new ballistic calculating lrf thermals seem to make speed a bit less critical. My xv freedoms still lack that though.
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I understand, but like I said, I'm shooting 55gr ballistic tips into small groups at almost 3,300 out of an 18" barrel. So far I've killed a coyote at 350y +/- and a cat at about 90y. As you'd expect, it flattened them. It works just fine, but it's maybe not the best choice for small varmint bullets. I've used mine for double duty, shooting deer for several years. The 90gr+ stuff folds whitetail like a lawn chair, and it kills coyotes very well. There are better options for bullets under 70gr, but in my specific testing, it shoots 55gr and 58gr as well as anything.

I'm probably going to get a 22 nosler barrel for the same reason you are though.
 
I think the down fall of the 22 250 in an AR platform is proprietary mags and feeding issues due to case taper not to mention extra weight. The attractiveness to the 22 nosler was supposed to be the rebated case that allows use of ones existing .223 bolt. In other words a barrel and a mag will convert a std 223/5.56. With 55s around 3500 in a 22 plus inch barrel it pretty much has enough energy to anchor coyotes as far as most guys can hit em.
Any noise you hear about brass issues is bs. You just cant over gas the pizz outta it.
Cfe 223 is my go to fastest with 55s powder with a 450 primer. 33 grains has been accurate in basically everything Ive had.
 
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varminter .223 said:
I think the down fall of the 22 250 in an AR platform is proprietary mags and feeding issues due to case taper not to mention extra weight. The attractiveness to the 22 nosler was supposed to be the rebated case that allows use of ones existing .223 bolt.
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Copy that. Looking at Hodgdon data, the 22 nosler shoots a 75 gr bullet out of a 24" barrel about the same velocity as my 6 arc out of an 18" barrel. Just doing some quick browsing on Hodgdon's site, I'm wondering why the 22 creed isn't high on your list?
 
wolverines said:
Copy that. Looking at Hodgdon data, the 22 nosler shoots a 75 gr bullet out of a 24" barrel about the same velocity as my 6 arc out of an 18" barrel. Just doing some quick browsing on Hodgdon's site, I'm wondering why the 22 creed isn't high on your list?
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Both the 22cm and the 22-250 need an ar10 to run in a gas gun, so much bigger, heavier, more finicky gas system, where the 22 nosler fits a standard ar15. I haven't looked at the 22 nosler data for a 75, but in an 18" arc you're probably getting 2,950? The nosler really shines with 50-62gr bullets. I'd also make sure that hat you were looking at was 24" data on the 22 nosler. Most of the load data I've seen for that cartridge uses an 18" barrel..
 
In general bigger bores require less length to get the same speed as the same weight bullet as a smaller bore depending on powder. Im probably over generalizing and there are probably exceptions and breaking points but its why the 6.8 only needs a 16 or 18" barrel. The 25dti is really impressive with 70s on an 18" barrel.
We've been using 243 bolt guns recently since we are in Hellinois but believe me Im looking for a reason to put another rifle together. Honestly where do go beyond a 243 shooting 75 vmax though
The 24" 6 Hagars are on stand by waiting on scotus and imo are the end all be all coyote medicine.
 
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I've always been intrigued by the Hagar. Are you still finding brass? IMO the end all be all would be one of the Creedmoors (yeah I know) in the Ruger Sfar. As small as an AR-15 with full size horsepower and commonly available rounds. Add the 243 in there (which is what I shoot in the slightly larger G2 DPMS) if you're nostalgic. What I don't know is if the Sfar's shoot well enough, seeing pretty blah reviews.

I've got a box of starline 6.8 basic brass for turning into 30 American. It's just a hair short of being long enough for 22 Nosler. I believe you don't shoot suppressed in Illinois? This is where I had brass issues with the 22N, and honestly several other rounds, and still do. It's interesting in that the first round is never an issue, it's fairly quickly shot successive rounds, when I'm assuming the suppressor hasn't released all the gasses from the previous rounds, where I see issues. I haven't found a way around it, tuning gas only helps to a point. A flow thru can would be the answer I'm sure, or longer gas system. Sorry to hijack.
 
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Hecouldgoalltheway said:
Both the 22cm and the 22-250 need an ar10 to run in a gas gun, so much bigger, heavier, more finicky gas system, where the 22 nosler fits a standard ar15. I haven't looked at the 22 nosler data for a 75, but in an 18" arc you're probably getting 2,950? The nosler really shines with 50-62gr bullets. I'd also make sure that hat you were looking at was 24" data on the 22 nosler. Most of the load data I've seen for that cartridge uses an 18" barrel..
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I should be right at 3000fps according to the Hornady gas gun load data (I have not chrono'd it yet) with a full charge of Xterminator. Yes, the Hodgdon data for 22 Nosler said 24" barrel. I just double checked it to confirm.
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I had Hagar brass in a cart a few times but always decided not to. Was able to find 2 single pieces of 30 Remington brass but a lost cause. Starline puts out some odd stuff. To bad they wouldn't make a run of it.
 
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