22 Cal V Max Bullets

Originally Posted By: borkonI've seen WAY TOO Many horrible results with vmax bullets in .22 cal.


Let's say your out calling and have 3 come in hard. You take on front on, great probably a dead coyote.
2 turn and run. You have great running shots at 2 runners.

You gonna trust a vmax to bust down a hip shot coyote and anchor it dead while swinging on the 3rd?
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Didn't think so...


I've hunted with alot of guys that use them and unless a frontal or a perfectly placed broadside shot, spent WAY TOO many miles/hours tracking down coyotes shot with them.



It's funny i think hunting style is often forgotten when talking about stuff like this. I love my vmax BUT I will agree with you that anything but perfect shot placement will cause issues with mess and runners.
My hunting style is all about precision shot placement and staying patient enough to wait for the right shot. I'm a terrible running shot so I don't even try. If I were to be taking less than perfect shots I wouldn't be running vmax.
 
Originally Posted By: YotarunnerOriginally Posted By: borkonI've seen WAY TOO Many horrible results with vmax bullets in .22 cal.


Let's say your out calling and have 3 come in hard. You take on front on, great probably a dead coyote.
2 turn and run. You have great running shots at 2 runners.

You gonna trust a vmax to bust down a hip shot coyote and anchor it dead while swinging on the 3rd?
9
Didn't think so...


I've hunted with alot of guys that use them and unless a frontal or a perfectly placed broadside shot, spent WAY TOO many miles/hours tracking down coyotes shot with them.



It's funny i think hunting style is often forgotten when talking about stuff like this. I love my vmax BUT I will agree with you that anything but perfect shot placement will cause issues with mess and runners.
My hunting style is all about precision shot placement and staying patient enough to wait for the right shot. I'm a terrible running shot so I don't even try. If I were to be taking less than perfect shots I wouldn't be running vmax.

In my experience I haven't found a bullet in a .223 or 22-250 either one that is great for running shots. By that I mean running straight away. Hitting them in the rear end. I can only think of one that I shot that was hit straight up the poop shoot that died where it was shot. And it didn't die instantly. It was just too hurt to get up and go. I shot it with a Hornady 52 grain BTHP. I've shot 40,45,50,52,53,55 and 60 grain bullets of different types in my .223 and I've come to the conclusion that it is a "perfect shot" cartridge. Meaning if you get them anywhere behind their rib cage they're probably gonna need shot again. And I've only shot one bullet that would reliably punch through the shoulder without ever blowing up on it and causing them to run. That was the Nosler 55gr. E-Tip. They'd get thumped and run or spin at times but they wouldn't make it far. But I never saw a bullet failure because of bone. I can't say I haven't with 55 grain Softpoint. I've seen a few get hit in the shoulder and get knocked over, only to stand up and take off. Each time was a similar thing that happened. It took the skin from the point of impact and peeled it off all the way to that saddle between the shoulder blades and blew it off. Scalped them essentially.

I've shot coyotes running straight away with the 22-250 using Softpoints and never didn't have to shoot them again. Hollowpoint bullets and V-Max too. That little high speed bullet ends up in guts. The only ones I've ever killed instantly with any bullet out of either the .223 or 22-250 that were running were running to my left or right broadside shot or quartering away from me and I got it under the last rib into their chest cavity. Or the ones I've hit in the neck or the back of the head unless they just happen to be jumping as the bullet that was meant for their head got them between the shoulder blades. I've spined a few and they died fast but that trashed their pelt.

Probably won't be a real popular opinion but any fast moving .224 diameter bullet sucks for running shots depending on where you hit them. Anything that misses an artery and just hits hip bone and guts is a no go. It ain't reaching the good stuff. I've shot them from 50 yards to 300 with that shot placement. Never didn't have to shoot again. When I'm shootin them running straight away that first shot is just to stop them so I can shoot them again. Basically I've just found that the softpoints are just a little more destructive and it takes them longer to get that second wind. They might not look too pretty when it's done but it's more likely that you'll be dragging them back to the truck rather than looking for them.
 
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This is why I hate vmax.

This fox was shot poorly with 3 65gr SGK, 1st shot was running hit high in the back, 2nd shot spinning hit in the rear leg(rifle covering) and 3rd shot was to the head.
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This coyote was hit with one 53gr Vmax on the side its laying on, it was 30 yards away, I was laying prone and it was perfect shot placement to the vitals but the shoulder was angled towards me.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2i1evCe]

My old camera would only take blurry night pics.

The coyote ran 300 yards, pelt ruined, blood everywhere head to tail and the picture shows the clean side, not an ethical hunting kill. I believe that was the last coyote I shot with Vmax. I had pretty much the same results or a bit worse with 52gr Berger varmints.

If a bullet for 223 wouldnt be considered at all for deer or hogs I wont use it for any hunting.

Vmax are only guaranteed with quartered away shots and a head on shots to the chest, that will be DRT and no exit, but every fox, coyote and deer ive shot head on to the chest has been DRT no exit no matter the bullet or caliber. Angled shots with Vmax are no go, and broadside shots can be perfect but if they exit, which happens at times, they tear holes and if they're loaded for coyotes they're going to destroy fox.

My 65SGK shoot more accurately in my gun and with a full charge of CFE223 they will be just fine for light deer and hog hunting, and they dont destroy fox and cat size animals.... one bullet to do it all.
 
Originally Posted By: ErmineWhat about the Hornady Match bullets? Wonder if they would work better than the vmax ?

I've shot the factory loaded Hornady 52gr. BTHP Steel Match. Killed every coyote and bobcat I ever shot with them. They're good bullets.
 
Originally Posted By: ErmineWhat about the Hornady Match bullets? Wonder if they would work better than the vmax ?
I know that Les Johnson was shooting the Hornady 52 grain Match bullets on his later shows.

And with Kirsch shooting 52 grain Berger Match, I dedicated two of my guns to those, as I had a bunch on hand.

Those two guys stack a lot of coyotes, so I had no problem following either of their leads.

 
I’ve been shooting coyotes for 20+ years with 40 grain VMAX bullets out of my 22-250. I dump 35 grains of 3031 behind the 40 grain VMAX and through my 24” 700 I’m pushing them around 4000 fps in my 1 in 14” barrel. Off sand bags I get clover leaf groups out of that combo. I’ve killed coyotes that were close enough to pet and out to over 400 yards with 40 grain VMAX bullets. VMAX bullets work fine on coyotes. I’ve hit them all over their anatomy and if you hit them in the chest, shoulder or guts they go down. If you are worried about fir, I am not, glancing shots with the 40 grain will tear fur up. Solid hits into the trunk of the coyote will put them down right now and usually just leave just a .224 entrance wound. I’ve killed way too many with the 40 grain vmax to stay quiet about people saying they don’t work or they are not “ideal” for coyotes. Coyotes are not Buffalo or grizzly bears!
 
Originally Posted By: RonaldI’ve been shooting coyotes for 20+ years with 40 grain VMAX bullets out of my 22-250. I dump 35 grains of 3031 behind the 40 grain VMAX and through my 24” 700 I’m pushing them around 4000 fps in my 1 in 14” barrel. Off sand bags I get clover leaf groups out of that combo. I’ve killed coyotes that were close enough to pet and out to over 400 yards with 40 grain VMAX bullets. VMAX bullets work fine on coyotes. I’ve hit them all over their anatomy and if you hit them in the chest, shoulder or guts they go down. If you are worried about fir, I am not, glancing shots with the 40 grain will tear fur up. Solid hits into the trunk of the coyote will put them down right now and usually just leave just a .224 entrance wound. I’ve killed way too many with the 40 grain vmax to stay quiet about people saying they don’t work or they are not “ideal” for coyotes. Coyotes are not Buffalo or grizzly bears!
Careful now! There's some real Vmax haters around here. But those of us who know, know. This current PM moderator seems to think they work ok, and he stacks them up in piles regularly.
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Vmax were cool before they became un-cool around here.
 
Vmax would be a horrible defensive bullet also, of course not what we plan to load for but there isnt a bullet that would do much worse in FBI tests.

It would be interesting to test them in serious winter clothes, I often wear Filson packer coat (two layers 24oz wool+huge shearling collar), wool sweater and merino wool undershirt,,,, love wool. Almost 3/4" of wool when all layers are squeezed together, more around the neck and shoulders+leather in the shearling, if someone is shooting at me I sure hope its vmaxs. I would bet a hard 22LR would penetrate as much as the remaining base of a vmax.

Vmax are cheap and everywhere, conspiracy to remove hard ammo? Ban green tips and dispersce ammo as soft as a fishing sinker?

Even I've got a few hundred extra 53 vmax laying around because they were all I could find for the last couple years. Every handloader should probably have some good Vmax recipes figured out for their gun but I regretted hunting with them.
 
Originally Posted By: Rock KnockerVmax would be a horrible defensive bullet also, of course not what we plan to load for but there isnt a bullet that would do much worse in FBI tests. Well it's advertised as a varmint bullet, so it's not intended to pass duty/defense barrier and penetration standards.
 
I will agree with Borkon, that I also like the 55gr Sierra SBT, #1365 I think it is. that was my main bullet in my 22-250 AI. and I use it in my 223 Kimber Montana. IMO 25-30 lb coyotes really are not that hard to kill if you can place your shot (at reasonable distances).

Good grief, Several of my friends have killed hundreds maybe thousands of coyotes with a 17 caliber and a 25gr bullet, I still hunt with a couple 17's though they have much higher numbers than I.
 
I don't disagree that V-Max will kill coyotes. I've killed a lot with em. But I've also wounded and seen more than one wounded with them. I lost one of the biggest badgers I ever shot shooting a 55 grain V-Max. Shot it in the butt at less than 100 yards and it got down the hole. Saw a mangey coyote take a 55 grain. V-Max directly to the shoulder at 80 yards a few months ago and it got up and ran off. The last time I seen it,it was still running at 500 yards. If shot placement is perfect they do fine. But I don't live in a perfect world. I need as much help as I can get.

I've killed coyotes with a .22mag,.17HMR and .17WSM too. It's all about shot placement. No doubt about that. And a lot of people don't shoot them while they're moving. I'm not one of those people. If I bark and they don't stop I kill 'em.
 
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Originally Posted By: OKRattlerI don't disagree that V-Max will kill coyotes. I've killed a lot with em. But I've also wounded and seen more than one wounded with them. I lost one of the biggest badgers I ever shot shooting a 55 grain V-Max. Shot it in the butt at less than 100 yards and it got down the hole. Saw a mangey coyote take a 55 grain. V-Max directly to the shoulder at 80 yards a few months ago and it got up and ran off. The last time I seen it,it was still running at 500 yards. If shot placement is perfect they do fine. But I don't live in a perfect world. I need as much help as I can get.

I've killed coyotes with a .22mag,.17HMR and .17WSM too. It's all about shot placement. No doubt about that. And a lot of people don't shoot them while they're moving. I'm not one of those people. If I bark and they don't stop I kill 'em.

Exactly how I feel.
 
Well shot placement means a lot.

A long time ago, I shot a big male coyote in Northern MO with a 85gr HPBT out of my 243 at about 75 yards away. It acted like I missed it and it ran about 50 yrds before it expired. I put a golf ball sized hole in it a little farther back, about center of the coyote. So yea, again shot placement matters, but it definitely killed it.
 
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGOriginally Posted By: Rock KnockerVmax would be a horrible defensive bullet also, of course not what we plan to load for but there isnt a bullet that would do much worse in FBI tests. Well it's advertised as a varmint bullet, so it's not intended to pass duty/defense barrier and penetration standards.

Last I knew, varmint bullets like Vmax are made to blow little critters to pieces and lessen the chance of ricochet . They have always done this for me. Will they work for coyotes ? Yes. Will they fail ? Yes.

Velocity, RPM and shot placment are always a factor in bullet performance.

 
I did not start this thread but have a question:

I am seeing a lot of posts on here saying the Vmax is too frangible. I picked up a Howa 222 in their mini-action model. I have tried a few different bullets with disappointing accuracy, but the 50g Vmax is very accurate. Since the velocity out of my 222 is 500+ fps less than my 22-250 will the Vmax perform or will it likely still be too frangible even at 222 velocities???

Edit to add: I am running it at around 3100 fps and it would be used on coyote sized game with shots ranging from 50-200 yards.
 
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My choice is Hornady 55gr. Vmax pushed along at 3240 fps out of my CZ527, not chronographed but definitely in that Hornady advertised velocity. I have taken many coyotes and many hogs with this round with very satisfied results. Frangible, yes, but designed to be so. I once shot a coyote going straight away and the impact was direct in his "bullseye" and he was one of the very few runners. Went about 40-50 yds and laid down. Internal inspection found multiple pieces of metal all the way up to his liver area.
There are several videos using ballistic gel showing what speed coupled with a frangible bullet will do. Very interesting!
 
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