I have plenty of WCD 25's and the old Berger match target 25's(and a lot of Hornady 25 hp). Only thing I would use the vmax for would be prairie dog, just to save my better bullets for fox/coyote. I have tried them out of my 24" 10 twist at 4000, still keyhole slightly and poor groups. Pretty common for 10 twist 17's not to shoot long for weight bullets well. Just can't fight spin requirements for stable flight.