Thermal lifetime warranty

Duhhh

Duhhh

Well-known member
I’ve been hesitant to buy a thermal for a while now. One thing that always bothered me was the warranties with them. I understand electronics fail and there’s a shelf life with them but that sucks, especially if you didn’t break the equipment maliciously.

So I’ve just discovered that Sig is going to launch the Echo SV50-LRF. From the looks of it, this thermal won’t blow your top of the line thermals out of the water but it’s got enough features to make it usable (at least to my inexperienced eyes). I looks like they’re going with lifetime warranties on this thermal though.

With that in mind, I’m more intrigued to get into the thermal market. Has anyone looked at these sig thermals yet? Also, what are the chances this pushes other big named companies to provide better warranties down the road?
 
A caveat: I am not a dealer.
I like Sig products. I currently own 4 Sig pistols, (the p365 is my daily carry) and my Sig Cross in 308 has accounted for over 200 hogs/coyotes/fox/coon/possums/armadillos in the last three years.
I would consider investing in the BDX system if I were a long range shooter.
In the last 20 years or so I've used feeder mounted lights, scope mounted kill ligthts, two ATN digital night vision optics and the Wraith-Mini DNV. I would estimate that I have over 300 hours behind thermal optics in the last three years.

My first Thermal was the Flir PTS233, a 256 resolution unit.

Next the Bering Optics Super Hogster, a 384 unit, followed by the Super Yoter, my first 640 unit.

Next I acquired the AGM Taipan 15-384 (1.5x base mag) for tracking stuff that was not DRT and detection scanning.

My latest thermal is the IRAY RICO RH50-V2. That can now be purchased for $4K

I typically shoot at distances 120 yds( longest shot to date, 172 yds on a possum) and under so a LRF is an unnessecary expense for me.

Having said that, here is one mans opinion.

The specs look good. 640/50Hz, less that 20NETD, 12 micron, Sig BDX/Applied Ballistic software, audio/video recording, 18650 batteries.

It seems the industry is moving rapidly to a five year warranty. IMHO, 5 years is a lifetime, and considering the competetive nature of the market today, the price point of $6K for entry will be a negative when competing with known brands such as Pulsar, AGM, Infiray, RIX. Of course, time tells all tales.

Respectfully, in my case the manufacturers warranty was the least of my concerns, and nothing about this unit makes me want to run out and purchase one.

As always, YMMV

Best,

GWB











BeringOptics Super Yoter




IRAY Rico RH-50 V2
 
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Geedubya said:
A caveat: I am not a dealer.
I like Sig products. I currently own 4 Sig pistols, (the p365 is my daily carry) and my Sig Cross in 308 has accounted for over 200 hogs/coyotes/fox/coon/possums/armadillos in the last three years.
I would consider investing in the BDX system if I were a long range shooter.
In the last 20 years or so I've used feeder mounted lights, scope mounted kill ligthts, two ATN digital night vision optics and the Wraith-Mini DNV. I would estimate that I have over 300 hours behind thermal optics in the last three years.

My first Thermal was the Flir PTS233, a 256 resolution unit.

Next the Bering Optics Super Hogster, a 384 unit, followed by the Super Yoter, my first 640 unit.

Next I acquired the AGM Taipan 15-384 (1.5x base mag) for tracking stuff that was not DRT and detection scanning.

My latest thermal is the IRAY RICO RH50-V2. That can now be purchased for $4K

I typically shoot at distances 120 yds( longest shot to date, 172 yds on a possum) and under so a LRF is an unnessecary expense for me.

Having said that, here is one mans opinion.

The specs look good. 640/50Hz, less that 20NETD, 12 micron, Sig BDX/Applied Ballistic software, audio/video recording, 18650 batteries.

It seems the industry is moving rapidly to a five year warranty. IMHO, 5 years is a lifetime, and considering the competetive nature of the market today, the price point of $6K for entry will be a negative when competing with known brands such as Pulsar, AGM, Infiray, RIX. Of course, time tells all tales.

Respectfully, in my case the manufacturers warranty was the least of my concerns, and nothing about this unit makes me want to run out and purchase one.

As always, YMMV

Best,

GWB












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Thanks for the response and well put. What really got my gears spinning is another thread on here about the Iray customer support and not taking a new unit back that was malfunctioning. Then I found the Sig. to be honest, I’ve only owned 1 Sig product and have heard early horror stories about their warranty. Sounds like that’s been fixed over the years.

Why do you feel that 5 years is a lifetime for 3k-5k thermal?
 
What's the old bromide, Opinions are like noses, everyone has one and many of them smell.
The above is just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
In good humor, I guess I could say it's because I'm 73 and at my age, a life sentence is not the deterrent it once was.??
Perhaps I'm short sighted. My Flir 256 unit is 5 years old. I have it on a Ruger American bolt gun in 300 Blackout. It sits in my gunroom. It can still be used, but it is technologically obsolete. I/ve owned 3 different iterations of the I-phone in the last 5 years. As a manufacturer, I'd definitely not want to guarantee electronic parts for "a lifetime".
Anywho, bottom line. Sig may become a player in the market, but IMHO, the fact that it has a life-time warranty that most likely will be "limited`" will not cause it to dominate the market. It may be a factor, but will not be a "game changer.

Best,

GWB
 
Just a couple thoughts.

If you need it to eliminate preds or varmints, make it a business expense like new mower or tractor. I opened my gunshop years ago so I could buy at wholesale and write off expenses.

Hunt days and get a $125. Burris 3-9 and $4000 dollars worth of gas.

Bite the bullet and spend the $6000. Now that you have your heart set on it you aren't going to be happy.

Can you accomplish your goals as a predator hunter with a less expensive optic.

Yes 5 years is a lifetime for electronics especially in a new field like civilian oriented night hunting products.

Just one more thought, Sig is a relative new comer in optics how long do you think they will support their optics. I have a few scopes that are no longer supported, Nikon, Alpen, Weaver, all were major players in optics,
 
Great points on biting the bullet. I’m not trying to cheap out by any means. I buy nighforce, Trijicon, and maven optics primarily, so I’m accustomed to spending money for quality.

A lifetime warranty isn’t the end all be all but man it makes me feel good to know when those electronics eventually fail, I’ll be covered. That’s one the the primary reasons I haven’t moved away from my vortex furry Abs (although I think I’m going to get the revic ranging binos).

I was just curious if this may push the thermal industry towards longer warranties down the road.

So let’s say that an already established thermal company, we’ll use pulsar for example. If pulsar offered a lifetime warranty over IRay or AGM, would that sway you guys towards pulsar?

Another thing I don’t mind doing is buying quality used equipment. I see guys selling thermals locally for 2-3k and the optic only has 1-3 years of warranty left. That’s definitely pushed me away from buying used.
 
popper43 said:
Does Sig actually make optics? I got binos from them that are really clear but don't know who really makes them.
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Every now an then I see a Tech. employee over here at the local range doing work putting rounds down range with new optics on the bench that they developing for market both Mil. and public sales. Leupold also local here with a large facility near me .
=
Sig Optic OR.
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Guess I should say where are the lenses made. As far as IR warranty, was 3 yrs til last year, then 5 this year. Critical parts would be internal battery, switches and the sensor array. My guess is people will upgrade in 5 yrs anyway. Many scope companies had 'lifetime' warrenties - didn't make the product any better.
 
This is just my opinion and is not meant to denigrate Pulsar optics.

I have friends that can pretty much afford any optic they choose and they chose top of the line Pulsars. I also have friends I have recommended what I consider to be entry level Pulsar units and I have helped them get set up and on target. I have no beef with Pulsar; but for me, a Pulsar unit was not a consideration.
My oldest son exclusively uses AGM thermals. IIRC, he has four . Two have LRF.
Sunday I spent three hours helping a friend zero an AGM Rattler. To my mind the directions were not the best, but once you figured out the sequence of buttons to "mash`' it became rather intuitive. Since he is the type that lets the perfect be the enemy of the good, and I "mashed" a lot.

Admittedly, I am not an expert when it comes to the Pulsar line. If you check out their product line, I do believe they are exclusively "tube" style similar to traditional rifle scopes. The four thermal "scopes" I have are all the "Camera" style bodies. Don't know if they are better or worse, that is just the style I like. The FLIR and Bering optics are light and compact. The RICO, not so much.
All four have a quick detatch mount that fits a picitinny rail and returns to zero every time. I can take them off, use as a scanner or put them on a different rifle at my option.

I mentioned previously, the warranty factor was not a factor in my choice. So whether it had a lifetime double your money back guarantee or not I still would not have bought a Pulsar unit.

In consideration of night hunting during the last 22+ years, I have very specific ideas of what works for me and the RICO RH 50 V2 was the first thermal optic that checked all the boxes and at the time was under $5K. It is now $3,999 at numerous vendors.

I purchased the FLIR unit at least 5 years ago. At that time I was not of the mind to spend $4,500 plus on thermal when Digital Night Vision suited my purposes. IIRC the FLIR PTS 233 was +/- $2,800 retail.

When `I purchased the Bering Optics Super Hogster, which has a 384 sensor, a unit with a 640 sensor was once again more than I wanted to spend. When temps are moderate and humidity is low it has an amazing image quality.



This vid was taken in Crystal City, Tx. on a perfect early March eve when the temps were in the mid sixties and humidity was very low.

Due to the quality of the Bering Super Hogster, when the Super Yoter (a 640 sensor) became available, I immediately acquired one, even though it was more than I wanted to spend.

To me, the biggest negative with the FLIR and Bering optics is that they use CR123 Batteries. Those typically last about 1.5 hours, so in an night, I can go through three sets of batteries. The RICO unit comes with two propietary batteries. Those batteries have lasted at least 7 hours on the occasions when I was in the stand that long.

Here is what I specifically desired in a thermal optic.
640×512 Sensor Resolution
50mm Objective Focal Length
Minimum 1024 X 768 resolution AMOLED display
3x Base magnification optical
4x Digital magnification
Sensor Pixel Size 12μm
Thermal Sensitivity <20mk
Sensor Frame rate. 60HZ
Video and Audio recording.
WiFi and Dual Streaming
The ability to download straight to a SanDisc that could be opened on my IMac without other software.
No LRF.

At the time there was no other optic by any established manufacturer that satisfied these requirements, that I was aware of, at any price.

It is amazing the difference having a 12 micron sensor and a less than 20 NETD rated 640 optic makes on a cold blustery misty night or when temps are above 90 degrees F and high humidity. Having a 60Hz refresh rate makes it much easier to keep up with critters on a dead run vs, optics that have a lower refresh rate,

Best,

GWB
 
Duhhh said:
Thanks for the response and well put. What really got my gears spinning is another thread on here about the Iray customer support and not taking a new unit back that was malfunctioning. Then I found the Sig. to be honest, I’ve only owned 1 Sig product and have heard early horror stories about their warranty. Sounds like that’s been fixed over the years.

Why do you feel that 5 years is a lifetime for 3k-5k thermal?
Click to expand...
Where did you see that Iray would not take a new unit back that was malfunctioning? Did I miss understand this? Thanks
 
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