Side arm for grizzlies

M

mutthunter

New member
I just planned a backcountry bow hunt in the Bob Marshall Wilderness area next fall. My partner and I were going over gear and I've decided that a new side arm for grizzlies would be well worth the extra weight. I'm posting here instead of the firearms forum because... well... Frankly, I don't care to hear what some guy in Florida with a 9mm thinks about it. However, I highly value what a guy from Alberta, Alaska, NW Montana(like me), etc, might have to say on the matter. Especially if they might happen to be a guide.

I don't intend to hand load for it, since it won't be called on for fun shoots, so good factory loads are a must. Clearly, weight and size are major issues, as this will be a packing gun(and it will double as a HD gun as well, incase 5rounds of 00buckshot isn't enough...giggle...).

The caliber is the biggest question. 357mag, 45ACP, 44mag, 10mm, 41mag, others? I don't see a monster hand cannon being practical ie- 500 or 454casull(plus they tend to be pretty spendy), but how big is big enough? My partner packs a Glock in 10mm, he likes more rounds down range vs fewer yet bigger rounds. I'm not so sure about that idea. I do have a good deal of trigger time on the 1911, but they're on the heavy side and I'm not sure the 45ACP is really the answer either.

So, for those of you who do spend a lot of time in grizzly country, what's on your hip?
 
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Almost forgot, I do carry pepper spray on my pack. But the pack usually doesn't come with on a stalk(and it's a PIA to swap the holster from the pack to the hip) Plus, pepper spray is more of a 1 time use thing, and from a survival standpoint, a pistol is a smarter bet.
 
I'm not a grizzly expert, but hunt areas with some black bear,(Adirondack Mountains) and Being the grizzly is larger than black bears, I would lean towards a 44 mag..
 
Thanx guys. 44mag seems to be the best way to go. I found a Taurus at our local Cabelas that looks pretty good. It's a bit big, but seems light enough and fits my hand very well(and it's in like-new condition to boot). I'll pick it up next week when the tax return shows up.
Thanx
 
Before you buy it check out a smith n Wesson nite guard. It's made out of titanium and light....
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.44mag. Definitely a revolver, if your on your *ss with a bear ontop of you(hopefully never) there might not be space for the slide to function on a pistol.
 
Ask your guide if he would bet his rear on a Rem 44 mag in a short barreled revolver against a Griz. If you want a fob (like a key fob) that makes you feel good, go a head and buy a 44 and carry your pepper spray. You might as well wear bells too, people from the city think that's a good idea.

Most guides carry something like a 375 H&H or 338 Win mag. If you want something lighter a Mossberg JIC shotgun with a sling over your back and slugs is another option. A handgun - not me. By the way I handgun hunt deer with a 44 and it's about half the power of a 30-30 lever action. A 30-30 is not a grizzly cartridge in a rifle and now you want to cut that power in half and bet your life on it.

Bah, humbug!
 
Dultimatpredator- That exactly what I had in mind, the size is much better than the Taurus, how much does it weigh? And, if you don't mind my asking, what's the pricetag on something like that used(dumb question, I know, I'm just not well versed in big bore pistols). If the budget allows, I'd much rather a Smitty over a Taurus anyway.

Clay- Sure, I'd prefer a big magnum rifle, but bow hunting with a rifle slung over the shoulder isn't really an option, at least not a viable one(stalking through brush etc with just a bow is tough enough, adding something on my back or over my shoulder would be a nightmare). Plus rifles are heavy and take up a ton of room in/on a pack. It's more of a second/third line of defense kinda thing.
 
I never weighed it but it's made out of titanium. I just googled it and it said 24.5 oz. I know it's lighter that heck they don't make the 44mag 386 nite guard anymore. But I've seen them fhem for 850 to 1150.00 on gunbroker. When they first came out it was being called the new Dirty Harry revolver. I'm. sure you could find one cheaper if you look around. They retailed I think for 1150.00. I picked mine up used for 450.00....I wouldn't part with it for under 2g since they don't make it anymore. I absolutely love it, it's lighter than my buddies glock. It comes with a tridium nite sight from factory. I can hit pop cans one after another at 30 yards with it. I switch back n forth from this to my nano for conceal n carry. I normally strap it on when I'm archery bear hunting or calling in lion county. All I know is that its the baddest little pistol I've ever owned. This baby can throw some flames!
 
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Frankly, you’re better off with pepper spray. There isn’t a pistol made that will stop a grizzly before it kills you unless you might be lucky enough to shoot it in the mouth while open. And nothing less than a .44mag. A 10mm Glock may as well be a .22. But that’s unlikely with a charging bear. I have spent a lot of time fishing in BC and Alaska over the years and the minimum any guide or experienced grizzly country explorer carries is a rifle in .338 Win Mag and up. Many stories even of bears shot with those continuing on their rampage for 30 minutes after shot, and shot well, like throughout the heart. Bear spray is effective. I presently carry a big [beeep] can of that, and a .376 Steyr if for some reason I might be lucky enough to have time to use it if the situation materializes.
 
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I own a 375 RUM as well, it would be a little heavy for carrying all day. But as an insurance policy on my life I would deal with it.
 
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I think most of the backcountry bowhunters have gravitated towards sprays (from what I've gathered on archerytalk) if they take anything at all. If it were me personally I'd probably take spray. It's hard enough trying to pack super light for backcountry...and then adding in a couple pound hand cannon seems to defeat the purpose. If you're using mules or something for the majority of packing in/out that's different. In that case I might throw a revolver in a daypack. Just make sure you can run faster than your hunting buddies! haha
 
From AK:

.44 mag minimum, .454 would be better. Shoot heavy, hard cast lead, Buffalo Bore or Backpacker bullets are the popular manufacturers up here. Several charges been stopped with that recipe in the last few years, simple google search will turn up the news reports.

I don't enter the woods without one of my two Taurus .44mag, haven't ever carried both of them at the same time but suddenly I want to! Well unless I'm carrying my .375 H&H or .12ga but neither of those would be a good option for your purpose!

I've seen a black bear that was called in and killed with a 10mm shooting Buffalo Bore, but you won't catch me trying that!

Guides up here tend to carry big bore rifles, not handguns, but then that's typically their primary purpose and they aren't carrying a bow, etc.
 
I've never shot a grizzly but I carry my Glock .40 everywhere I go will a .40 drop a grizzly I dont know nor wanna find out but i know i could dump 15 rounds in a hurry. My next pistol will be a Dan Wesson 10mm 1911, I've watched him drop an elk with it at 75 yards and have watched a youtube video of a guy dropping a white tail buck at about 75 yards with a Glock 10mm. You are asking something light and easy to carry so I would lean towards the Glock 20 in 10mm. You could easily carry it in a chest rig holster or a drop leg like I do. Very light, tactical, readily available and enough punch and ammo to save your butt if you put yourself in that situation. The Bob is some beautiful country and I know there are a lot of bears in that country. Let me know what you decide to do and good luck in your backcountry quest.
 
Wellllll,
As you see, if you ask 100 people up here in Alaska that question, you'll likely get about 80 different answers. A guy killed a charging Grizzly up in Denali State Park with a .45ACP. As they say, 5 hits with a 9mm is better than 5 misses with a .44mag, 454 etc... There are those who advocate pepper spray only, there are those who advocate lead. I personally like the lead. I just purchased a Glock 20 10mm to carry. I also have a Weatherby 338-378 a 50 Beowulf and a tricked out 870 with slugs/laser/light. If I were bow hunting, I would carry the Glock with the hardcast ammo mentioned. This topic is an ongoing, neverending discussion/argument up here. Pack what you can shoot accurately and good luck...
 
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Thanx for all the replies guys. I think I know what direction I'm heading for this one. As to the pepper spray, I always carry a magnum can of UDAP, and I've actually had to use my pepper spray... and then hike out 12 miles in super thick bear country with an empty can of spray... The spray is great and works well, but as I said before, it's the one time use and then you're SOL the rest of the trip that makes me want some backup.
 
We don't have any bears to speak of down here, only hogs, and they obviously don't get as big as grizzlies. However, I've done a lot of reasearching this topic, and the general concensus seems to be that (1) you need to carry the biggest caliber that you can shoot well (as stanly alluded to), and (2) any handgun in the hand is generally better than a cannon in the truck. Realistically, I doubt you're going to lug a big bore rifle very far on a bow hunt. It may be trite, but it's still true that the best gun in the world is the one you have on you when you need it. People have successfully defended themselves from grizzlies with .40 S&W's and .357 magnums, but nobody in their right mind would advise that they are adequate for the task. I would personally carry a .454, and certainly nothing less than a .44 magnum with hardcast bullets. It all depends on your shooting ability. Shooting an auto definitely requires less practice to gain minimum proficiency than shooting a revolver double action. However, no matter what your choice, you are going to have to practice a lot, so you may as well go with the more reliable revolver. Another advantage to a revolver is you can fairly effectively practice your double action technique with snap caps and dry firing when you're not at the range. From my experience at self-defense shooting of wildlife (confined to rattlesnakes and hogs), you are generally not going to have time to do much more than get your gun out and get off one or two shots, all in a couple of seconds at most. This pretty much jibes with the accounts I've read from people who have had to defend themselves against bear attacks. When you factor in a grizzly's size and tenacity, those one or two shots had better count, or you're in trouble.

I would be leery of relying completely on bear spray, though it might provide an additional force level option. I've personally been maced(S&W LEO mace), and I would have been perfectly able to subsequently accomplish mayhem had I so desired. I know mace and bear spray are apples and oranges, but so are humans and grizzlies.

All that being said, if your gun ain't on your person and ready to go, it's worthless. Smith and Wesson doesn't make the Niteguard any more, but they do make the Model 329pd scandium/titanium .44 magnum. It has a 4" barrel (better than a snubbie IMHO) and weighs about 27 ounces. By all accounts, you can pack it all day and forget it's there. My concerns with it, though, are that the (reported) sharp recoil from its ultra light weight. Even Winchester white box 240 grain jacketed bullets have lead to reports of factory loads jumping crimp and engagement of the internal lock. The sharp recoil also minimizes the chance and accuracy of followup shots. There are also a couple of older reports of catastrophic frame failures (aka blow ups). Bottom line, the 329 will likely be there when you need it, but may or may not be up to the task. There's no way the average person could dream of shooting heavy hardcast loads like Buffalo Bore or Garrets out of this thing, and it would almost certainly lock up from rounds jumping crimp if you did.

If I were purchasing a .44 magnum for the role you describe, I would probably go with a 629 .44 magnum in 4" barrel. Probably the best compromise between gun weight, barrel length, caliber and reliability. However, the new factory grips suck. I replaced mine with Hogues. If you are bothered by recoil, I am told that Hogue's X-frame grips will fit on a Smith and Wesson N-frame (such as the 629). Whatever gun you get, don't scrimp on the holster. You could be the World Champion .500 S&W magnum shooter, but if you gun is locked up in a crappily designed holster where you can't get to it in a hurry, you're screwed. Even worse would be a holster that is so uncomfortable that you aren't wearing it, leading to the unfortunate previously-mentioned cannon in the truck scenario.

Larry Kaniut's Alaska Bear Tales and Stephen Herrero's Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidances are a couple of good references.
 
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I know this is old, but I wanted to tell you .44 mag. is standard issue in Alaska. Stay away from the big guns, as the weight almost as much as some rifles. You want something you can keep no your person all day. I like a 3" S&W with a Simply Rugged holster unless I have a backpack on then a chest holster. Yeah, yeah I have .375H&H too, but your not carrying that with you while bow hunting. Lots of advice though from city folk I see. I've tried them all and all I need the gun to do is shoot a short distance maybe 15-20 feet. It simply works for everything!Stay away from autos as they have to work flawlessly in order to be reliable. Too many auto are not reliable enough for this type of protection.
 
I am looking into the 460 rowland conversion kit for my Glock 30 for black bears here in Utah. Jonny Rowland is claiming that it about the same as the 44 mag. Might be worth checking into and it costs less than a new gun. Go through Lonewolf if it is something you do.
 
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