And I can't get a 3 oz pattern to hold up after 25 yards. I don't have any wads that are long enough so the last Half ounce of shot overflows above the top of all the different wads i currently have on hand. Two and a half ounces fills right to the top of my tough wads even with a cork cusion i made out of a felpro gasket that sits in the bottom of the wad to cushion the shot and keep it from melting and sticking to the wad bases. I love the discontinued remington HD BB shot for predator hunting. I still have a few in BB, BBB, and T sizes. Killed a coyote at a 109 yards with a Rem HD BB 3" 12 gauge factory load. Just not spending a $100 plus per pound(or per 2 pounds) for it. Ill take some cheap magnum lead shot in 25 pound bags for almost 2/3's less and call them a little closer. Leads kills them just as stone cold dead out to 65 yards for me with the right choke as HD shot. The HD shot shines when taking pokes alot farther than shotguns should be shooting at predators. Never tried lead any farther on yote than 65 yards. I normally set My calling up so I don't have a shot further than that.Anyways on purpose When i'm using a shotgun. The last time out to arizona , I made the mistake of being able to see too far and Watched a bobcat hang up at 175 yards! That sucked. I couldnt even begin to count how many calles in yotes, fox, and bobcat that have slammed to the ground using Federal wingshok 1 7/8oz lead BB loads. They nornally dont exit like the HD type shot dose but kills just a good for me out to 65 yards. I only aim for head and neck though.