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Shooting the 17 Rem on the reds with the 25 Berger Match Varmint #17308 which has the larger tip opening.  Both of these were hit in the lower chest and both had a pretty good size hole with the first one blowing out the bottom and the second opening up a pretty large exit.  I don't know if they had been hit a little higher if the results would have been better.  So far I'm not impressed with them.